1961 Chevy 409 info wanted:

[bill dedman]

Since these seems to be several guys reading this that have in-depth knowledge about these cars, I have a question or two that someone might can answer.

The Z-11 package was so much faster than the 425/409 that preceded it, I have often wondered why G.M. didn't find a way to get that motor into a few '64 cars... they seemed to just fold up after the front-office edict bannning racing.... and it was such a shame because tha Z-11 engine seemed to me to be about as good on a specific output basis, as the canted valve 396/427 that followed. It was a powerhouse!

And, in view of the above, I think it's a shame that if the aftermarket is going to reproduce cylinder heads, that they don't reproduce the GOOD ones (the Z-11's) an an intake manifold "package" along with it.

I am one of what I'l bet are more than just a few Mopar guys who would make the switch to Bow Ties if I could get my hands on a set of ALUMINUM 1963 Z-11 replica heads and intake. Those motors would haul those full-size '63 Impalas deep into the 11's, weighing upwards of 3,500 pounds...

I watched Bill Heilscher's ("FRIENDLY? CHEVROLET") white, 1963 Z-11 annihilate about 20 fast Mopar Stage II and III 426 Wedge cars at "Dodge Day" in Little Rock, one weekend in '63. Somebody had paid him $50.00 to come up from Dallas and bring his weapon of choice.... LOL! He drove it like he was trying to break it... but, never did.

Anyway, the Z-11's would be awesome if somebody could find a way to make parts available so they could be brought back without needing half of Fort Knox to get it done...

Thanks for listening.

Bill

[X-TECH MAN]

I agree with Bill Dedman....I would buid a Z-11 clone for nostalgia racing if we could get Alum. heads and the 2 piece intake from someplace like Edelbrock. Greg Reimer is right on the money for the most part about the 409's. 142 SS Impalas were assembly line built with the 360 HP version. Even the racing greats such as Dyno Don Nicholson (Impala), Frank Sanders (Biscayne) and Dave strickler (Biscayne) started with 348/350 HP cars then switched engines for the Winter Nationals of that year. These were "left over" engines from the Daytona 500 of 1961 that were shipped to any racer who had connections with the factory or a name. The early engines were thin (cylinder walls) and blew up a lot during the 500 but worked OK for drag racing.The 409's were low RPM torque engines (6000 or so) as compared to the later big block version (396/427/454). They didnt breath well at higher RPMs. Thats most likely the reason they didnt use them in 1964, 1965 except for street use. The 409 was gone after half of the model run in 1965.

[ss wannabee]

Greg, I don't know what happened to Bob or the Midwest 409 Club....I did write him several times, and their events were usually at Union Grove or U.S. 30 Dragway, too far for me on the east coast. I think Rusty Symmes....(I think I got his name right) was a very active member in the club. He's got to be one of the biggest 409 fans on the planet! Well, next to Lamar W! One last question.....would anybody out there know if a 1961 Impala Super Sport 409 Convertible was ever built? Thanks again!

[Dick Butler]

Rusty lives in Winchester Indiana. He ran NMCA Pro nostalgia. He has a 62 409 style motor Bubble top with the Z-11 aluminum fenders etc. He does have a Wide range of info on 409/Z-11 stuff. He also has a 99pt restoration type Z-11 equiped 62 Bubble top also. He is doing his THIRD Z car now....He wrote a book on the parts and availability of stuff.

[Greg Reimer 7376]

Alright,guys,I said I'd do some research and get back on, here we go: For 409 parts and some neat stuff,go on Google and enter www.lamarwaldenautomotive.com.When you get through with that one, now try abruneauperformancee.ca/409chevyengineparts.html .He's a Stock Eliminator racer in Canada. It's been 20 years or so since I played with 409 Chevys, now look at the stuff available for them!! Unbelievable!! Look this stuff over, get back on here and tell us what you think!!

[Greg Reimer 7376]

Oh,yes, one more thing.On the Lamar Walden post, when you get on the home page,click on 348-409 catalog, then tell me what you think.

[Greg Reimer 7376]

Slight typo on one parts source- here's both of them again for the aluminum heads and the repro Z-11 heads and intakes-- www.lamarwaldenautomotive.com and the other is-- abruneauperformance.ca/

[Aubrey N Bruneau]

Hey Greg.... this is the site:
http://www.bruneauperformance.ca

Yes, I have a 62 409 HP BelAir hardtop, setup for C/D Stock.
Looks like I'll FINALLY have a season this year !

Anyhow
Lots of new stuff for these engines now. Lamar has had a Z11 style head available for 15+ years, as well as a very nice ( expensive ) single plane 2X4 manifold. Bob Walla had his aluminum heads out 2 years ago... and Edelbrock introduced theirs last year. Edelbrock also has a dual plane 2X4 intake for small and large port heads, and they JUST introduced a modern Performer single 4 BBL ( about bloody time ! ).
Personally, I'm invloved in these engines pretty heavily. Last year, I designed and drafted up a single plane "air gap", single 4BBL intake manifold. Been working with the pattern maker for the past few months, and should have a casting shortly. Will finalize using a test engine on the dyno, and the manifold should be available within about 6 weeks.

Bob Walla should have an aluminum block available by summer.

So, if you're into a W Chevrolet...( and you have fairly deep pockets ! ), you should be able to build a proper 409, with a full compliment of modern technology !

[Gerry]

Hey guys,

I just found this forum. I have a 61 Bel Air that I run in IHRA stock eliminator,
G/Stock. IHRA reduced the hp rating to 325 back in 02, so Iam guessing
that someone either ran a 61 or was planning to. NHRA does not have the
61 360 hp refactored, but they do for later engines. 61 can use the large
port heads/intake, however the camshaft lift is limited to .439. I made three
events last and won class at one. The car will run 11.60/70's but I think
there may be another tenth or two left.

Gerry

[Aubrey N Bruneau]

and you guys should SEE Gerry's car !