Atlanta fan appeal.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by X-TECH MAN

Honest question here and not meant as a put down though some will take it that way. If they are so popular then why did the sport compact concept fail so badly ??? Even the bikini show couldnt keep it floating !

nhra screwed the sport compact racing up. It got off to a great start. Then they let the high dollar guys come in and dominate. You don't have a race car but if you did how would you like it if you had to run a couple of cars in your class that had a half million dollar budget for the season. It discouraged most of the racers. And they wound up with 3 and 4 car fields.
They did it to themselves. The sport compact racers or fans are there they just have no place to race.

[junior barns]

Art
No disrespect and dont want to get off topic, but what you said in your last post is exactly how most people in AA and A/S feel about the new Mustang! With the full force backing of Ford how can anybody compete!! I understand that the odds of getting a heads up is small but stock and ss is perfomance based and (most) strive to be the fastest in their class!

just my 2 ents worth

[art leong]

I believe it is totally different The mustangs are race cars the older cars had their hp done with mufflers, very small cams, stock pistons, stock fuel pumps Etc.Etc.
If you put the older cars back to the way they came from the factory. I would agree 100%.
Even the race hemis and max wedge cars came with cast iron manifolds.
The early cars have an awful lot of enhancements done by the racers. The mustangs are done by the factory they come with race headers, a sfi balancer etc.
Yes they are going to make a lot more power than the factory number. But so does a 427 chevy or a street hemi.
How much money does it take to build a competitive a or aa stocker. I'm sure you will wind up close to if not more than the mustangs.

[Lynn A McCarty]

Why dont the FWD guys build something really cool! Like a 66 Toronado SS car, or a 1996 Eldorado ETC? Or a 1970 Eldorado with a 500? I know there was a guy running a 1990 or so Buick Rivera with a turbo V-6, that was kind of cool.

There are all kinds of cool combos, Art yours is different, cant wait to see it. It is what makes drag racing, America, Apple Pie great.

Terry is correct hands down, they even tried small blocks in trucks and that wasnt successful either as a stand alone. I think maybe no limit on cubic inches with a single 4 barrel trucks, now we are talking. That would make a truck!!!!!!!!! How about a 1955-57 GMC truck with a Pontiac motor in stock or Super Stock?

[John Lang]

Art ! Speaking about Horsepower! Your Neon is right up there, 1.35? under and still untested so to speak ! I have a 65 SS/CA Hemi factored at 500, which used to be the same as the SS/AH cars. Now the AH cars are I believe at 507! What i'm getting at is I feel the rating is too high in the 65 cars, as the 68 cars have a much higher hood scoop, they can run the newer, higher manifolds, that we can't. I'm not whinning, just bring up a point, and I do like the neon, I'ts just that the ring & pinion is in the wrong end of the car!....I'LL Get over It.... Later John Lang

[Ken Miele]

Mark, with all do respect and the same goes to everyone that thinks racing stock eliminator is more expensive today then in the past. Fee's being raised is not the death of NHRA. When I started racing stock over 23 years ago it was no more expensive for the money I was making then, then it is in today's money. I was working for UPS making $15.00 an hour, today UPS drivers make close to $30.00 an hour. Everything has gone up along with salary's. If someone's situation has not changed in 20 years, then yes it has gone up for them. My first stocker, the one I drive today cost me $8000.00 and was race ready. It was only a 2 tenths under car and when I worked on it, it was an index car. I needed to learn allot just to get it back to run under the index. I spent lots of money and time and had fun doing it. If you went 4 tenths under you were a top 5 qualifier. This was in 1987, my car was already 19 years old, I was 29 and thought the old cars were still cool as I think many young people still think today.

Today I can build along with anyone else a stocker for less than $15000.00 and go 8 tenths under. A late 80's Mustang 5.0 or the same year Camaro's can be built for the same. If you go to 2 nationals, 7 divisions and 2 opens you will have to take 2 days off and 1 day respectively per race, I do not see that being a problem. I spent about $1100.00 for entry fees in '87, today for the same racers I would spend about $2000.00 for entry fees. Membership and car number was about $60.00, it cost $109.00 today. You don't have to run AA to be completive, just ask Lee Zane, when he ran his Apollo.

Granted the money you can win has not gone up much, but I doubt there are many who race today that depend on the winnings to be able to race next week.

All the talk about the new CJ's and Challengers is way over blown, how many racers will be effected by the new cars? I for one, being a AA car I'm not complaining, I look forward to racing them. Even with the Challenger being able to run some of the slower classes, the effect will be small on most racers. With all this said, I do not think NHRA has priced anyone out of stock eliminator.

Choose your class carefully, and you can have fun in stock for no more then it cost 20 years ago in today's dollars.

[Mark Yacavone]

"I do not think NHRA has priced anyone out of stock eliminator."

Kenny, We'll see. Maybe you're right, but I still don't think it's a good year to be raising fees on anyone, young or old.

Anyway, the main point of my post was about getting the young guys into some sort of class racing.
I don't think many 22 year olds could afford it. You said yourself. You make alot more money now, than you did 20 years ago.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by John Lang

Art ! Speaking about Horsepower! Your Neon is right up there, 1.35? under and still untested so to speak ! I have a 65 SS/CA Hemi factored at 500, which used to be the same as the SS/AH cars. Now the AH cars are I believe at 507! What i'm getting at is I feel the rating is too high in the 65 cars, as the 68 cars have a much higher hood scoop, they can run the newer, higher manifolds, that we can't. I'm not whinning, just bring up a point, and I do like the neon, I'ts just that the ring & pinion is in the wrong end of the car!....I'LL Get over It.... Later John Lang

I have one of those hood scoops on my car. But for me its more of a parachute than a scoop. I'm sure it costs me at least one mph. Haven't gone 1.35 yet. But I'm not in a horsepower class it's cubic inches in my case.
Hoping the new mods will get it quite a bit quicker. But the main thing is I have got to get it to leave harder. Lately I can't hit the tree with a grenade. I wish I could deep stage. But some of the crybabies took care of that.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by art leong

I believe it is totally different The mustangs are race cars the older cars had their hp done with mufflers, very small cams, stock pistons, stock fuel pumps Etc.Etc.
If you put the older cars back to the way they came from the factory. I would agree 100%.
Even the race hemis and max wedge cars came with cast iron manifolds.
The early cars have an awful lot of enhancements done by the racers. The mustangs are done by the factory they come with race headers, a sfi balancer etc.
Yes they are going to make a lot more power than the factory number. But so does a 427 chevy or a street hemi.
How much money does it take to build a competitive a or aa stocker. I'm sure you will wind up close to if not more than the mustangs.

Id say about $50,000 to $70,000 to start with and the old Camaros, Mustangs, early 60,s Mopars cost a fortune IF you can find a decent one to build. If its a good Corvette then its more like $100,000.

[Alan Roehrich]

Nice early Camaros between G and A are bringing less than $40K, ready to run. No doubt, a Corvette will run you double. A Nova will bring less than a Camaro. The one thing you do not see for sale a lot is a Chevelle.

Example: If it is still for sale, one of the Ryans has a really nice Nova for sale for about $12K as a roller. Pete (Biondo) has a nice 396 for sale for about $10K. You need a transmission (store bought is only $5K or so, plus maybe $600 or so for a converter), a set of headers (Stahls for $1500, or Elstons for $3500 or so), and the usual add ons. So you could be running A or AA in a really nice car that would probably be real competitive for less than $35K. And that is if you do not negotiate on anything. Also, it would be a real pretty red Nova with a 396/375, you could probably get your money back if you could race it and hold on for a while.

I have not done any research into the Ford or Mopar stuff, so I am not qualified to comment on what that stuff costs, but it is a bit pricier than the Chevy stuff.

But if you can do a lot of the work yourself, shop smart, and do not get in a hurry, you can build for less.

A real bargain can be had if you find an abandoned project. And unfortunately in these economic times, they will get easier to find.

If you must have every trick in the book, buy everything, and pay to have it installed, then no doubt, you'll spend $50K plus. Maybe closer to $70K.