AA/SA @ Norwalk OH

[Evan Smith]

Serious question:

Quite a few Mopar guys have shown me "paperwork" on this T/A hood deal, but nothing direct from Chrysler. How come none of the top-of-the-line diecast companies, which go to great lengths to re-create muscle cars accurately, ever build a Hemi or 440x6 Challenger with a T/A hood? And How come you never see one restored that way at a car show or on Barrett-Jackson?

Also, was the AAR hood an option too on a 440, because I've seen that deal too?

[David Barton]

Larry, what is the correct intake manifold for the NASCAR Hemi?

On a different note, if there is a shootout Al Carp said he will put up $500 and so will I.

Just to clear things up, we run the NASCAR combo because NHRA said we're allowed to. And because Al's '70 Hemi Challenger was hit 215 pounds. I don't make the rules, I just race by them. If it were up to me I'd like to run the crossram, except I'd probably have to weigh 3900.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Evan Smith

Serious question:

Quite a few Mopar guys have shown me "paperwork" on this T/A hood deal, but nothing direct from Chrysler. How come none of the top-of-the-line diecast companies, which go to great lengths to re-create muscle cars accurately, ever build a Hemi or 440x6 Challenger with a T/A hood? And How come you never see one restored that way at a car show or on Barrett-Jackson?

Also, was the AAR hood an option too on a 440, because I've seen that deal too?

I had a semi factory deal (had to buy the car but everything else was free) in 1971 along with Gene Collins on a Dodge Challenger and it came with a 383 and a shaker hood like Dave Boertmans Rod Shop car. The word as I heard it later that year is the shaker hoods became hard to get and several Challengers came thru with the T/A hood. Never saw one until many years later though. I never heard anything on the 'Cudas with the AAR hood. Its no different than the .527 cam on the 428 CJ's or anything else that is allowed these days. NHRA allowed the hoods years ago so they are allowed to run them. Not much different than Edelbrock heads on 396 Camaros and 390/428/427 Fords. Not to mention the NASCAR Hemi. Its not what is stock....its what is allowed these days is all that counts. The single 4 Hemi had a low rise bath tub shaped intake manifold with a 3 barrel carb (remember those?). I have the numbers at home but good luck in ever finding the correct pieces. .

[GARY JACOB]

I have an original nascar short track intake and carb. The intake is a dual plane type and the carb is a vacuum secondary with lemans type bowls. The carb is listed in the holley spec manual as a 1965 hemi nascar. The intake looks just like the later crate hemi single carb intake but is made from mag.

[Larry Hill]

I forgot to mention the car in the picture for best appearing had an AAR hood on it. A picture is always worth a 1000 words.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by GARY JACOB

I have an original nascar short track intake and carb. The intake is a dual plane type and the carb is a vacuum secondary with lemans type bowls. The carb is listed in the holley spec manual as a 1965 hemi nascar. The intake looks just like the later crate hemi single carb intake but is made from mag.

I stand corrected....Its possable the 3 barrel carb was a 1964 piece and not a 1965 or was there a difference in the short track combo vs the Daytona (long track) version ?? The 3 barrel Holley was also a vacuum seconday 850 (or 950?) CFM carb. We ran one on a bracket car back in the stone age. I will look it up when I can find the paper work I have stored away.

[David Barton]

Larry, before I jump to any conclusions which hood and engine combo do you run?

[Chris Hill]

Originally Posted by David Barton

Larry, before I jump to any conclusions which hood and engine combo do you run?

71 'cuda 440 six pack with shaker hood

http://www.dragracecentral.com/DRCPhoto.asp?ID=181491

[Steve Hagberg]

Jeff and David: Regarding the 3-bbl carb and intake, Chrysler completed the design modifications to the carb and 'short track' manifold and submitted them to NASCAR one week before the Firecracker 400 at Daytona in 1964. The combination was accepted by them and ran at that race. The manifold was the '043' magnesium version with the rear half of the plenum modified to accept the wide 3-bbl throttle blade. Les Norton runs this manifold on his car as it has been accepted by NHRA even though the carb has not been accepted! The interesting part of the story is that the Chrysler engineers spent a lot of time and money trying to get the 3-bbl to work, and even had to move the secondary boosters to correct the fuel distribution. Eventually they said it was worth 2% HP improvement, the same as they found in early testing with Hilborn fuel injection. The carb is a Holley model 3085A P/N 2536406 and used base plate gasket 2536411. One of these would be a rare find as it is not the same as the generic 3-bbl Holleys that were later sold over the counter. Anyway, it's not legal in stock, just an interesting story. By the way, I came about this information when a good friend let me look over an extensive collection of weekly engineering meeting minutes from late '63 to mid '64 by the group developing the A 864 engine program which included both the NASCAR engine and the Drag Race cross ram engine. Facinating reading. These guys were so far ahead of everyone else it was scary. Hollow stem valves, titanium retainers, a slew of light weight proposals including gun drilled cams, titanium wrist pins, Hilborns without conventional throttle blades. What we got was aluminum heads, oil and water pumps, mag intakes and more.

[Evan Smith]

Randall and George,

As a SRAC member, I spoke with NHRA (over a year ago) about the factor on the Hemi, and at one point was told that it was going to get a reduction after a two-year period—it never happened. I tried to fight the good fight, but didn't win.

It was also unfair that the 440x6 in the B-Body got hit to the moon, when the A-body with a similar chassis got nothing (had the A-Body been included it could have brought the entire average down). Moreover, NHRA hit the 350 Chevy based on runs make by a Camaro and a Corvette? There is clearly little logic applied at times, and this was brought to the attention of high-ranking NHRA officials, albeit with zero response.

I am certainly not one to bash NHRA because I feel that most of the guys sportsman racers deal with are good people, but it's amazing to me that we could make a few simple changes to "enhance" the sport, yet no one wants to act and make such improvements.

Evan