Help with ladder bar adjustments

[Mike Pearson]

Your ladder bar has to have a downward angle in relationship to the frame of the car. The relationship to the ground means nothing. You should have about 2 degrees down angle. the front of the bar lower than the back. An easy way to give a quick check is to park the car on a level surface then step back and compare the angle of the bottom bar of the ladder bar to the bottom of the rocker panel of the car. The ladder bar should be lower in the front in comparison to the rocker panel. Use a protractor or smart level to check and fine tune the angles. you should also have about 2 degrees down pinion angle. When you set up the car take the shocks out and use a solid strut set to the exact installed height that you intend to run your shocks at. Make all of the adjustments so there is no preload. Then reinstall the shocks and put the car back down on the ground and adjust the ride height of the shocks to the same exact dimension of the set up struts. The car should work perfectly with this steup. I am running the same ladder bar set up as you. This is how I set up my car.

[Dick Butler]

Mike Pearson, If the cars are the same motor, trans, wheel base tires etc and yours uses a down angle the position might work but.... All the factors must be the same. The Down Angle theory is not a cure all.
It only works when it works. Weighing the car out and finding instant centers for the positions and a starting point for stick versus auto versus T- Brake is THE way to do it but with a ladder bar and at best 3 holes slow choices works. Pinion angle must be adjusted as someone stated for each position tried to prevent bind or breakage. When we had our chassis shop which built and installed 4 links and ladder bars we even found a few cars where NONE of the positions worked. We moved brackets, added holes or moved the crossmember itself if it were too low in the car. It is not just angle it down in the car it could kill traction in some cars.

I agree Dick. I tried just moving the bars down on my '65 Chevy II Super Stocker, didn't work. I do have a question tho. I always set up my bars with the left bar in a neutral postion with the driver weight in the seat and the right bar preloaded with approx. 3/4 of a bolt hole. The car leaves straight, decent 60 foot times(1.31-1.34 with the 18 degree 2 bbl combo) but not alot of wheel stand. Does anyone ever preload the drivers side and more preload in the right bar?

[BlueOval Ralph]

On both ladder bar ars I had it was the same left neutral but right 1/2 to 3/4. If you scaled it as I remember it as about 150 lb more on left front and about 75 lb more on right rear this was ona low 9 second Pinto 9.10 to 9.20 et

Originally Posted by Tilley2007

I agree Dick. I tried just moving the bars down on my '65 Chevy II Super Stocker, didn't work. I do have a question tho. I always set up my bars with the left bar in a neutral postion with the driver weight in the seat and the right bar preloaded with approx. 3/4 of a bolt hole. The car leaves straight, decent 60 foot times(1.31-1.34 with the 18 degree 2 bbl combo) but not alot of wheel stand. Does anyone ever preload the drivers side and more preload in the right bar?

[Mike Pearson]

Originally Posted by Dick Butler

Mike Pearson, If the cars are the same motor, trans, wheel base tires etc and yours uses a down angle the position might work but.... All the factors must be the same. The Down Angle theory is not a cure all.
It only works when it works. Weighing the car out and finding instant centers for the positions and a starting point for stick versus auto versus T- Brake is THE way to do it but with a ladder bar and at best 3 holes slow choices works. Pinion angle must be adjusted as someone stated for each position tried to prevent bind or breakage. When we had our chassis shop which built and installed 4 links and ladder bars we even found a few cars where NONE of the positions worked. We moved brackets, added holes or moved the crossmember itself if it were too low in the car. It is not just angle it down in the car it could kill traction in some cars.

I have raced my car with a ladder bar set up for 30 plus years. I have had both leaf spring and coil over set up under my car. Both combinations required the same set up. I experimented with other set ups with the same result as the person who started this thread. I have also set up several other superstock cars and a few bracket cars. They all responded well to the same set up. They all had good 60 ft times and were easy to drive. I am sure there are different ways to set the cars up. I would be very interested to hear some of the other ways that were sucessful for other racers. I have never had to run a car with preload.

[GTO/GN]

When I had my Firebird backhalfed, they installed a ladder bar/coil over setup. This is how I was told to set it up. Take something that weights the same as the driver..( me) and put it in the drivers seat... Then take the bolt out of the front left side ladder bar and adjust it so the bolt slips through with no resistance. Then go to the passenger side remove the front bolt and adjust the bar so the hole in the bar is about 3/4 the diameter of the hole higher than the hole in the mount. Pull the bar down and install bolt.. Sounded to easy ... but it worked the car would leave straight and hard. He told me that was a base line for setting it up , but I never changed it.

[John Mason]

Originally Posted by GTO/GN

When I had my Firebird backhalfed, they installed a ladder bar/coil over setup. This is how I was told to set it up. Take something that weights the same as the driver..( me) and put it in the drivers seat... Then take the bolt out of the front left side ladder bar and adjust it so the bolt slips through with no resistance. Then go to the passenger side remove the front bolt and adjust the bar so the hole in the bar is about 3/4 the diameter of the hole higher than the hole in the mount. Pull the bar down and install bolt.. Sounded to easy ... but it worked the car would leave straight and hard. He told me that was a base line for setting it up , but I never changed it.

FWIT, a rather well known chassis builder showed me a trick like above BUT he had me adjust the RIGHT side for the bolt to slip thru and LOWER the left side 3/4 of the hole then jack UP the bar to install the bolt. He pointed out it was the same net preload, just much easier to jack the left bar up rather than pull the right bar down.
The car showed the same wheel weights and left the same either way but it is only a mid 1.40 60' car.

[GTO/GN]

Originally Posted by John Mason

FWIT, a rather well known chassis builder showed me a trick like above BUT he had me adjust the RIGHT side for the bolt to slip thru and LOWER the left side 3/4 of the hole then jack UP the bar to install the bolt. He pointed out it was the same net preload, just much easier to jack the left bar up rather than pull the right bar down.
The car showed the same wheel weights and left the same either way but it is only a mid 1.40 60' car.

Yeah I guess the end result would be the same...I never ever thought of that,, but since the way I outlined it was the way I was told.. I just did it.. Not knowing any different...But it wasn't hard to pull the bar down, maybe because of the length of bar the leverage helped.

[Dick Butler]

Mike, Glad that you have had such good luck with your ladder bars. Some settings are just "trouble free"
Good Luck.