Hood Scoops to Comp

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by sprnova

no heads up runs

After you have a few of those, you won't think it's just bracket racing.

[John Stock]

Josh,

I’m not of the opinion that hood scoop cars (Modifieds). should be removed from Super Stock. If I had half a brain, I’d run one of the “Weigh Me, Pump Me, Send Me to Dinner” classes.

It wasn’t the topic of Don’s post but, I do believe that a case can be made that the Indexes for Modified classes are not equitable. Currently a disproportionate number of Modifieds qualify at the top of the ladder. As you so eloquently (and accurately outside of a heads up) describe the Eliminator as a bracket race, it isn’t hard to see why positions 1-4 on the qualifying sheet are of high value. Cars 1-4 will always get the available byes if they are still in competition. Any free pass in a round of a single elimination contest doubles the statistical odds of winning the event.

The reason that Modifieds qualify at the top is a function of the AHFS. At national events Modifieds can trigger the AHFS and they are balanced out by every car in their class. Traditional Super Stock cars that trigger are only balanced against their same engine combination. In reality, this means many Super Stock cars get horsepower adjustments after hitting -1.15 while Modifieds in practice only get an adjustment when they run -1.40 at sea level. In reality it would currently take a -.25 or -.30 change to the Modified indexs to bring equity to the qualifying and ladder situation, IMHO.

That said, that black V-6 Camaro is a bad dude.
As is that Silver Mustang with a couple of missing cylinders.

[sprnova]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

After you have a few of those, you won't think it's just bracket racing.

You sir dont need to worry about me. (heads up or bracket style) I can take care of myself.


Not to hyjack the thread I believe they all have a place, as long as your with in the rules.

[sprnova]

Mr Stock you have good points. But you say the top 4 have an advantage by potentially having a bye, come 1 or 2 round when they get beat by a lower qualified car (beat by bracket racing) now they have the advantage? And what camaro and Mustang are you refering to?

[RPM5595]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Once again, you have to think long term and consider all of the ramifications. The faulty premise here is presuming that all hood scoop cars would 1) continue to race and 2) would race in Comp eliminator. In all likelihood, all this would accomplish would be some "hood scoop" racers quit, and other build a different combination. This would be like telling certain Stock & Super Stock cars, "Oh, you run 9's... you can just run Super Gas." And how many have done that? Exactly 1, I believe. So, you end up not only NOT increasing car counts in Comp, but decreasing the car count in Super Stock, while simultaneously devaluing the equipment owned by a large number of racers.

As a conservative, you should know that you cannot successfully legislate an outcome. Don't "abandon free market principles to save the free market." The sanctioning body does not *create* participation. It creates an environment where participation may exist, if the customers like that environment and its incentives.

$.02,

I agree 100%! What the hell difference does it make if the car has a scoop or not? I have been converting my car into a "hood scoop car" with the hopes of going faster and still running in a "class" I can be competitive in. A few years ago I made the BIG mistake of thinking the IHRA was serious about growing the Midwest and I built a Crate Motor combo only to have them pull out of Div. 5 the same year I got it done. Now I'm on the down hill side of building a Modified and you want the NHRA to put me into Comp? Give me a break! If I could afford Comp I would run Comp. I honestly would like to someday. But right now it's not going to happen. I built my car, 89 Mustang, as a 302HO Stocker in 1992 and was one of the first FI mustangs in the country. I worked HARD to get the combo figured out and eventually I succeeded. I got my *** handed to me more than a few times along the way by a big ol' station wagon and Al Provoast when I ran in N/SA. I grew to have a large amount of respect for him and instead of whining about him having a bogus combo or cheating,(neither of which were true in my opinion), I WORKED harder, spent a little more money, and eventually I beat him and many others. Then, someone decided that because the (at the time) new LT1 Camaros' were beating up on the old muscle cars that ALL of the fuel injected cars needed their own class so it would be "fair" to everyone. What a bunch of liberal thinking crap! Is'nt that why we have a HP factoring system? That was the last straw for me at the time with NHRA and was when I built the Crate Motor combo. Hey, I'm a Ford guy through and through but I think the new CJ Mustangs should get hammered with HP right now! In this instance it is NOT a fair playing field for the other cars in the class. Getting back to the current discussion why do some people seem to worry SO much about the "touring Pro Sportsman" drivers and what they drive. Truth is, most of them could get into the slowest car in the class and still whip everyone's *** more often than not. Yes, I believe having the faster car is an advantage and that is part of the reason I am building one. But, the biggest reason they win more often than the average joe is they are NOT the average joe! They race more often, do more maintenance to keep the cars in top shape in some cases, set the cars up to BRACKET race, and generally have better skills. Getting all the evil "hood scoop cars" out of SS will solve nothing. These are just my opinions and even though I am 100% correct feel free to debate me. Geesh!

[John Stock]

Josh,

A fast black 3rd Gen with a hood scoop I saw out west this fall, had a pretty good driver as well. I think it was black anyway.

What I said about byes was. "Cars 1-4 will always get the available byes if they are still in competition." 1-4 will always get the byes, if they are still in. If they lose before the bye they don't get them.

[Don Eckel 111]

If you are talking about just forcing those car to run an existing Comp class, no problem. If you are talking about adding more classes to Comp to accomodate them, then I have a big problem with it.

[Don Kennedy]

Don : You are a comp person do you think comp in the future is in a lack car count problem??

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by Bobby DiDomenico

Mike,
Nice, but my head hurts!
Does the Index drop .3 for all in that class at the event?
"Relegated to those classes..." Is that real? Either case, pretty funny!
Thanks for the birds eye view.

Bobby, no, just three tenths for you. 8.00 Index, if you run 7.200 in the first round, that is -.800. Your Index for round 2 is now 7.70 (for you only) and will be 7.90 come Monday (for you and everyone else in your class). The temporay CIC (Competition Index Control) hits of -.510 to -.609 affect you only, for that event. When a racer goes more than -.610 at that race, the permanent Index is adjusted, as mentioned earlier, for all in your class. Even if you run 7.410 first round, your Index is 7.91 for next round, while another racer in the same round runs 7.450, his Index will be 7.95 for second round. If you both should run second round against each other, the Index reverts to 8.00 for you both, heads-up. If you win that round on a redlight and can "save" your Index, your Index goes to the 7.91 it would have been, for round 3. Temporary Index hits, as I said, effect that particular driver. If two seperate drivers in the same class both go -.60 in round one, but neither of you go any faster at that event, no permanent adjustment happens and you and everyone in your class goes back to 8.00 at the next race

And yes, once a driver permanently adjusts two different classes (say, B/ED and F/AA), you are stuck in one of those two classes for the rest of the year. I think it's a fair deal. A few years back, a team made a comment in an article, that with two cars, and a multitude of engines, transmissions, intake/carburetors, they could fit eighteen different classes. The two-class rule is in effect to keep the people with a lot of money, but with, shall we say, less than stellar driving ability, from hitting all these different classes permanently and possibly obsoleting a lot of good cars and classes when most can not afford to even come close to running that many cars/classes.

Dave, I'll take the A-. I copied/pasted it from a previous post I made in January, and had the same mistake then, too. So I guess I really get a B+. LOL

[Bryan Worner]

Originally Posted by Don Kennedy

Since NHRA Competiton Eliminator car count is down what about moving any car in Super Stock that has an after market Hood scoop on it to Comp eliminator . this would be a good move on NHRA part to help save Comp Eliminator to help increase the car count in that eliminator would be a wise move or a bad move ??.

let it rip boys and girls

ps The post has absolutely nothing to do with anyone personally Just a simple post so Please no one read into this other than what was posted .Just maybe a way to save comp if it is in trouble with car count , just a simple statement nothing more everyone wheww

I like the idea!