Any ignition guru's out there - Page 3

classof65 · 06-04-2007, 08:22 PM

Brucie

Come on now.... You kow you want to move to East Tennessee.....

By the way, Ron Blair (sheriff Pontiac) says HI and promises if you move here he will never give you a ticket...

Peace, Rev.

P.S. New distributor coming along with two cases of Syntec compliments of NHRA.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Alan Roehrich · 06-04-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Tested the box, it is working. MSD feels it's the pickup in the distributor. Dave, haven't heard from ytou in a long time. Hope all's well. We miss Music City.... Especially now that we have a class car.

The cap and rotor will be replaced too. Hope that's all there is to this problem.

Peace, and THANKS everyone, Rev.

Rev,
I'd be surprised if the pick up is the problem. Most often, they are either good or bad, as in they will either run fine or not run. My MSD billet distributors all have Ford late model (88 or so?) pickups.

Alan Roehrich

Bring "AA" classes to NHRA Stock Eliminator!

classof65 · 06-08-2007, 09:41 PM

Alan and all. My problem NOW isn't the miss we were chasing. NOW WE CAN'T GET IT TO START AND STAY RUNNING.... I've checked the box and it is good doing the MSD suggested test, I've removed the tach and all the other "stuff" hooked to it. I've put a new pick up in the dietributor - Thanks Alex D - I've tested the wires. I've looked at the cap and rotor and they appear fine - I've "cleaned up" thw wiring. We've tried TWO coils.

What started as an attempt to fix a strange anomolie has turned into a dark oddesy. At least it ran before.

Any suggestions now that the obvious has been covered>

Could it be my ignition switch?

Peace, Rev.

Alan, you are absolutely correct USUALLY a pick up is either good or bad, but when your car won't start you try anything. I might even try standing on my head.

Alan Roehrich · 06-08-2007, 10:06 PM

Your ignition switch will be easy to test. Use either a test light or a volt/ohm meter to verify that you have voltage on the output side of the switch when it is on, at all times.

Do you have, or can you borrow, a known good MSD box? I know they say it passed their test, but I still suspect you have a defective box. The reason I say that is that if I remember the sequence of your problems correctly, the car would actually start and run, until after you dropped a wire or otherwise shorted the MSD box. For that reason, I am very suspicious of that MSD box.

Don't stand on your head, your glasses will likely fall off, and we know where that will leave you.

Alan Roehrich

Bring "AA" classes to NHRA Stock Eliminator!

david cron · 06-08-2007, 11:48 PM

try another rotor, also maybe cap, but try rotor first, if this works i will explain later.

david cron

Bob Mulry · 06-08-2007, 11:58 PM

Just a heads up,

If you are using the Adapt-A-Cap which takes the large ford cap and the 2 piece adjustable rotor for phasing the rotor mount to the dist shaft can come loose.

It's hard to check without really looking for it.

Turn off all the stuff you don't need to keep running.

Fill the carburetor and shut off the pump, keep the fan and water pump off and then try and start it.

Did you static time it (twist the dist with the ignition and timing light on) before trying to start it?

Take a spark plug cut off the ground strap, plug the dist end of the coil wire on the plug, ground the plug with a jumper wire and then crank the motor and check for spark. It should be a good one.

Just giving you something else to check along the way.

If you have already checked all of this stuff, then never mind.

Bob

G Schenck · 06-09-2007, 10:57 AM

Our local ignition guy was checking a 6AL for the third time( the other two times the box checked good ) but the guy could not fire the car when he got home. On the third try the box again was checking good when the technician tilted the box and the thing was bad. It was something inside the box causing it to work sometimes and not work other times. So beware.

Greg

sg1838 · 06-10-2007, 11:25 AM

Rev.,

I'm not trying to imply you haven't already checked, but make sure you're not on a wild goose chase here. What you think MAY be an electrical problem, may not be an electrical problem after all, as I'm speaking from experience. In Englishtown 2 years ago I developed a top end miss. The car still ran pretty well otherwise other than this top end miss. The main symptom was that my tach was fluttering like crazy, and I had seen that before when I had a coil that had gone bad, and took the MSD out with it. And I knew the RPM of the motor wasn't fluctuating +/- 3000 rpm when I was in high gear going down the track. So, I naturally assumed it was the coil / MSD problem again.

Well, to make a VERY long story (almost 2 years long) as short as possible, I believe I finally found the problem...two broken valve spring. I was CERTAIN this was an electrical problem, and changed basically everything electrical on the car: MSD, coil, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, crank trigger pickup, battery, fuel pumps, ignition switch, two-step, rev-limiter, I checked, cleaned, and ran new grounds, and I'm now even in the process of re-wiring the car because of it. But, earlier this spring I took the motor to be freshed, and my engine builder found the broken springs. I run through the valves at least every 10 runs on my car, and didn't find these, but I'm now 99.9% positive this is what the problem was, not an electrical problem like I had thought.

Anyway, take this as a word of caution. When this first happened at Englishtown I took my box to MSD, and they gave me the same RF noise story. That's when I started replacing parts to no avail. A LOT of money later, and I'm embarrassed to admit that I probably could have avoided all of this simply by checking my valve springs more thoroughly.

Hope you find the problem soon! Good luck!

Jason Oldfield
S/G & S/ST 1838

FED 387 · 06-10-2007, 12:10 PM

Defiinately check the box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 The fact you shorted it or whatever probably blew something inside of it.... Try another box first ,if none is available try putting it back together without a box ,just a coil and distributor see if it will start. These things are real finicky when it comes to electrical surges and shorts etc. I'll bet it IS the box nothing else probably been going bad for a while and that final surge you talked about did it in. Comp 387

Lee Valentine · 06-10-2007, 12:51 PM

If you're using a stock ignition switch in a race car get rid of it!

06-08-2007, 10:06 PM	#24
Alan Roehrich Veteran Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Murfreesboro TN Posts: 5,105 Likes: 1,564 Liked 1,789 Times in 408 Posts	Your ignition switch will be easy to test. Use either a test light or a volt/ohm meter to verify that you have voltage on the output side of the switch when it is on, at all times. Do you have, or can you borrow, a known good MSD box? I know they say it passed their test, but I still suspect you have a defective box. The reason I say that is that if I remember the sequence of your problems correctly, the car would actually start and run, until after you dropped a wire or otherwise shorted the MSD box. For that reason, I am very suspicious of that MSD box. Don't stand on your head, your glasses will likely fall off, and we know where that will leave you. Alan Roehrich Bring "AA" classes to NHRA Stock Eliminator! __________________ Alan Roehrich 212A G/S

06-08-2007, 11:58 PM	#26
Bob Mulry VIP Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Coarsegold, CA Posts: 1,016 Likes: 57 Liked 320 Times in 102 Posts	Just a heads up, If you are using the Adapt-A-Cap which takes the large ford cap and the 2 piece adjustable rotor for phasing the rotor mount to the dist shaft can come loose. It's hard to check without really looking for it. Turn off all the stuff you don't need to keep running. Fill the carburetor and shut off the pump, keep the fan and water pump off and then try and start it. Did you static time it (twist the dist with the ignition and timing light on) before trying to start it? Take a spark plug cut off the ground strap, plug the dist end of the coil wire on the plug, ground the plug with a jumper wire and then crank the motor and check for spark. It should be a good one. Just giving you something else to check along the way. If you have already checked all of this stuff, then never mind. Bob __________________ Bob Mulry 7516 STK A & M Motorsports

06-10-2007, 12:51 PM	#30
Lee Valentine Senior Member Join Date: May 2004 Location: Brookfield, CT Posts: 708 Likes: 13 Liked 319 Times in 68 Posts	If you're using a stock ignition switch in a race car get rid of it! __________________ Lee Valentine 1661 STK

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06-04-2007, 08:22 PM	#21
classof65 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 37 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Brucie Come on now.... You kow you want to move to East Tennessee..... By the way, Ron Blair (sheriff Pontiac) says HI and promises if you move here he will never give you a ticket... Peace, Rev. P.S. New distributor coming along with two cases of Syntec compliments of NHRA.... HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

06-08-2007, 09:41 PM	#23
classof65 Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Maryville, TN Posts: 37 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Alan and all. My problem NOW isn't the miss we were chasing. NOW WE CAN'T GET IT TO START AND STAY RUNNING.... I've checked the box and it is good doing the MSD suggested test, I've removed the tach and all the other "stuff" hooked to it. I've put a new pick up in the dietributor - Thanks Alex D - I've tested the wires. I've looked at the cap and rotor and they appear fine - I've "cleaned up" thw wiring. We've tried TWO coils. What started as an attempt to fix a strange anomolie has turned into a dark oddesy. At least it ran before. Any suggestions now that the obvious has been covered> Could it be my ignition switch? Peace, Rev. Alan, you are absolutely correct USUALLY a pick up is either good or bad, but when your car won't start you try anything. I might even try standing on my head.

06-08-2007, 11:48 PM	#25
david cron Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: gallatin, tn Posts: 7 Likes: 0 Liked 5 Times in 1 Post	try another rotor, also maybe cap, but try rotor first, if this works i will explain later. david cron

06-09-2007, 10:57 AM	#27
G Schenck Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Harahan, La. Posts: 521 Likes: 41 Liked 81 Times in 35 Posts	Our local ignition guy was checking a 6AL for the third time( the other two times the box checked good ) but the guy could not fire the car when he got home. On the third try the box again was checking good when the technician tilted the box and the thing was bad. It was something inside the box causing it to work sometimes and not work other times. So beware. Greg

06-10-2007, 11:25 AM	#28
sg1838 Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 80 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Rev., I'm not trying to imply you haven't already checked, but make sure you're not on a wild goose chase here. What you think MAY be an electrical problem, may not be an electrical problem after all, as I'm speaking from experience. In Englishtown 2 years ago I developed a top end miss. The car still ran pretty well otherwise other than this top end miss. The main symptom was that my tach was fluttering like crazy, and I had seen that before when I had a coil that had gone bad, and took the MSD out with it. And I knew the RPM of the motor wasn't fluctuating +/- 3000 rpm when I was in high gear going down the track. So, I naturally assumed it was the coil / MSD problem again. Well, to make a VERY long story (almost 2 years long) as short as possible, I believe I finally found the problem...two broken valve spring. I was CERTAIN this was an electrical problem, and changed basically everything electrical on the car: MSD, coil, cap, rotor, wires, plugs, crank trigger pickup, battery, fuel pumps, ignition switch, two-step, rev-limiter, I checked, cleaned, and ran new grounds, and I'm now even in the process of re-wiring the car because of it. But, earlier this spring I took the motor to be freshed, and my engine builder found the broken springs. I run through the valves at least every 10 runs on my car, and didn't find these, but I'm now 99.9% positive this is what the problem was, not an electrical problem like I had thought. Anyway, take this as a word of caution. When this first happened at Englishtown I took my box to MSD, and they gave me the same RF noise story. That's when I started replacing parts to no avail. A LOT of money later, and I'm embarrassed to admit that I probably could have avoided all of this simply by checking my valve springs more thoroughly. Hope you find the problem soon! Good luck! Jason Oldfield S/G & S/ST 1838

06-10-2007, 12:10 PM	#29
FED 387 VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,416 Likes: 522 Liked 330 Times in 178 Posts	Defiinately check the box!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 The fact you shorted it or whatever probably blew something inside of it.... Try another box first ,if none is available try putting it back together without a box ,just a coil and distributor see if it will start. These things are real finicky when it comes to electrical surges and shorts etc. I'll bet it IS the box nothing else probably been going bad for a while and that final surge you talked about did it in. Comp 387