Yet another bogu horsepower factor

[Bruce Noland]

The ahfs was not intended to cover for abuses of the factoring system by nhra staff.

GM is NOT coming out to play and it would not make any difference to the majority of the current racers if it did.

[Greg Hill]

Stock is a performance class that has a horsepower to weight factor. The idea that the manufacturers can corrupt the process by giving these new cars such bogus ratings is something we all should care about. NHRA is deeply involved in this corrupt practice and without their involvement it would not be possible. If we don't stand up to this corrupt process we get what we deserve. I hear a lot of people say " What can we do? They are here and their is nothing we can do about it." I'll tell you what you can do. Don't support NHRA at National events. A few races with just new Challengers and Mustangs might get some action. Don't forget when the fuel injected GM cars came out, it took all of us letting NHRA know how unfair the hp ratings were before they reluctantly made the fuel injected classes. After more than 10 years those cars are properly factored and they are no faster than a lot of combinations. Do you all really want to race these under factored cars for 10 plus years before the factors are fair.

Also don't forget the muffler deal. You all do remember that don't you? We were going to be required to all run mufflers. I remember Gale Pinkston telling Danny Gracias that if we had to run mufflers he would just quit. Stand up and be counted. Don't let them get away with this.

[442OLDS]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

Stock is a performance class that has a horsepower to weight factor. The idea that the manufacturers can corrupt the process by giving these new cars such bogus ratings is something we all should care about. NHRA is deeply involved in this corrupt practice and without their involvement it would not be possible. If we don't stand up to this corrupt process we get what we deserve. I hear a lot of people say " What can we do? They are here and their is nothing we can do about it." I'll tell you what you can do. Don't support NHRA at National events. A few races with just new Challengers and Mustangs might get some action. Don't forget when the fuel injected GM cars came out, it took all of us letting NHRA know how unfair the hp ratings were before they reluctantly made the fuel injected classes. After more than 10 years those cars are properly factored and they are no faster than a lot of combinations. Do you all really want to race these under factored cars for 10 plus years before the factors are fair.

Also don't forget the muffler deal. You all do remember that don't you? We were going to be required to all run mufflers. I remember Gale Pinkston telling Danny Gracias that if we had to run mufflers he would just quit. Stand up and be counted. Don't let them get away with this.

Greg,
In ALL honesty,don't you think that the horsepower rating on your combo is "favorable"?
I know for a fact that you have been at least a half second faster than me or my mom numerous times.
I know you probably feel that you "work harder on your stuff and deserve it"
Thats fine,but what about something like a E/SA Chevrolet Powerglide Camaro.Don't know the ratings,but I know you seem to have them by at least a few tenths too.

The real point is that horsepower ratings will NEVER be fair.

I like racing a 1970 442 Oldsmobile,but IF the numbers ever come out right on the lottery,I will be getting a new Mustang or a Challenger for Stock Eliminator.There is a huge advantage to having the faster car in heads up races.

It is NOT all bracket racing as some seem to think it is.

You won the Division 3 Championship a few years ago,and having the fastest E/SA car was part of the reason.

(Might want to change your signature line,not #31 anymore)

As far as not running any National events,I don't know what that will accomplish,but I'm glad I don't have to worry about running you at National events,although I'm sure we will meet a few times at some Divisional races.
Just my $4.42,but I think you are making too much of all of these bogus horsepower ratings.There are A LOT of bogus horsepower ratings.Some are definately more bogus than others,but my feeling on Heads Up races is this:

If you are in a HEADS UP race and are slower than ONE TENTH of a second in performance,all the other driver has to accomplish is .099 on the tree,and the SLOWER CAR CAN NOT WIN!
If you are a second slower,or a tenth slower,.099 on the tree WINS the race for the faster car.Simple as that!

CLOSE doesn't count in Drag Racing!

[junior barns]

442OLDS

WOW!!

The difference is that your combo can be competitive with Greg and most current cars in your class! If you elect not to spend the time or $$$ to get there, that is your choice. The old combo's will NEVER be cometitive again with the new cars if NHRA does'nt wise up!

[hemidup]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

The 5.7 and 6.1 have the same heads. Rest assured my friends, this too shall pass as the foot stepping on other body parts will remedy the situation. Looks like the 6.1 is headed for 2.25% in June or July, whenever the period ends. And now that we got this in the open (course it's been there over a year), maybe a Ford review and by that time GM will probably have some combos for review. Someone at GM has to care. None of this in instigated by NHRA. The mfg. has to submit the stuff etc.

Mr. Jeff, The 5.7 and 5.9 DP combo is rare compared to all the 6.1's out there. Must be like 90, 09 DP's that run the 6.1 package and all the 2010's will. As far as I know, Johnson, John's, you and I are the only one's that ordered the 1 of 5, 5.7 DP package. I can't find the 5th car. Do you recollect who has it?

To everyonelse...My personal feeling about the 5.7 as being underated? Yes it is, but what am I suppose to do about it?

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

Check out the 5.7 hemi from Chrysler/ Fiat. It's the same motor as the 6.1 just less 25 cubic inches. It's rated at 305hp. Let's take a look at the specs boys and girls. It's 12.7 to 1 compression, it has a 584/552 lift cam, it has a single plane intake that is cast although it looks like a sheet metal manifold. It has a 1000cfm throttle body, a super stock oil pan and heads that flow well over 300 cfm right out of the box.

I'd laugh out loud if it wasn't so unfunny. Heck the NHRA 'purist" won't race in IHRA because of "them bogus outlaw Crate Motor cars that are so underfactored and were never built"... my 360 Magnum is a 300/325HP combo, 9.6:1 compression, dish piston, .458/.467" cam, 1.92/1.62 valves, and a 750 Holley... compare that to the above.

But NAW! NHRA said that THESE cars were a-ok, so they're completely defensible (as long as you own one)...

Once again, I absolutely love the new Challengers and Cobra Jets, but that doesn't mean that they shouldn't be factored and classified properly.

[NewHemi]

That is exactly why we are building a 5.7 right now. We could see the 6.1 getting a lot more hp added, and if we could have stopped blowing them up, we might have contributed to it...But it has always been our plan to run a 5.7, we even have had two 5.7 blocks sitting in pour shop before we took delivery of the Drag Pak.

We still have a fresh 6.1 block sitting, and have special plans for it down the road when we get bored (I mean tired...) with running the 5.7.

Let's see now. We are being criticized for running a 6.1... And we will will equally criticized for running a 5.7 to.... And even if we went to the 5.9 magnum, we would probably be criticized too. So what to do, what to do?

Guess we will just have to run what we have, and let the critics do what they do...

David
The New Hemi Guy

[junior barns]

No critisizing here. If I had one I would race it. The problem I see is that if NHRA doesnt get a handle on the HP factors on all the combos that will be coming out from C thru M stock, the NHRA will see a big drop in the National participation!

Just my opinion

[Greg Hill]

Darrell, since you chose to make this personal , i will say this. Is there any E/SA in division 3 that can't out run you. Let me see, Mitch Truman, Randy Simpson,Joey Wilkes, Jamie Fenner, Dan Walcott, and last but not least Jim Kakel, who runs the same combination as you and I have seen run in the 10's in E/SA. All you guys have to do is find a good engine builder, buy a good trans and converter, make sure your cars are as good as they can be and then start flogging to gain hundreths at a time. As far as my combination I don't think it's particularly favorable as there are at least 6 or 7 E/SA cars in the country that are faster than me.

Oh by the way I do happen to know a good engine builder in Dayton if you're interested.
And for my signature I don't know how to change the number Kenny did that a couple of years ago.

[Jeff Teuton]

I think there were a few more 5.7's. PB Candies (who has SS/BA Mustang # 13 also has Challenger # 13 and it is a 5.7. I will try to get the numbers. I just hope Greg don't send me a mail bomb. Don't take that wrong. Greg and I are good friends and there is nothing a couple of cases of beer won't cure.