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Old 03-30-2010, 03:49 PM   #1
junior barns
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Default Re: A/SA heads-up

WAaaaaY soft on the CJ

Should be 500
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: A/SA heads-up

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Originally Posted by junior barns View Post
WAaaaaY soft on the CJ

Should be 500
Yeah, you're right. 450 is soft, but 500 seemed a little stiff at the time.

A rating of 475 would put them about 300 lbs over where they are now. That would level the field but still give them SOME room to show what they're holding back. It's a start anyway.
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Old 03-31-2010, 11:07 AM   #3
Tim Kish
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Default Re: A/SA heads-up

What criteria would you consider the basis of comparison between engines? Ignore the supercharged cars (though I know you can't).

Say that the baseline for A/SA is the 69 427 Camaro. NHRA ratings are 425HP with OEM heads and 435HP with aftermarket heads.

This calculates to an NHRA rated HP/cu in ratio of 0.995 and 1.019 respectively.

Now the 6.1L - 370 cu in / 385 HP current rating. This translates to a ratio of 1.041

Per the intial factoring this would indicate that the 6.1L engine should produce a ratio of 1.02 times the power of the 427 or 2% more power per cu in displacement than the combo that has been developed for 40 years. Since the 6.1L is blowing the doors off the Camaro's we know this number is higher.

I am sure it is true do to better cylinder heads, intake manifold and much larger TB. If there were proportional restrictions made for head port size (well out of NHRA's control since this is base engine design) and TB sizing (something NHRA could have regulated) then these engines could have been more equal from the onset.

Bumping this engine all the way to 415 or 425 HP - may be a little harsh, saying that they will outperform the capabilities of the developed combination by 12-15% at their introduction but again there is far too little data to support it not being true either. Not having any data on the combustion chamber efficiencies, pressure drop measured in the ports/intake, its hard to say what the proper ratio of power output per cu in should be when comparing the two different engines.

Again there are many software packages that could take data that is already required for blueprinting these engines with a few extra data points for head flows, etc and evaluate the power potential of the new engines and then properly scale them to align to the established combinations.
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Old 03-31-2010, 12:05 PM   #4
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Default Re: A/SA heads-up

I have a pretty good idea what sort of power those new motors are capable of making.

Now take the 6.1L. We've already seen that at their current HP rating they're capable of, at minimum, 9.70's @ 137 in A/SA trim. We don't even really know for sure that's as fast as one of them is capable of going (I don't believe that's all they've got). 415 horsepower would make them 200 lbs heavier than they currently are. Just based on what I've seen those cars run in comparison to the older, carbureted combo's, I don't think .2 of ET would be enough to keep them from being a VERY good combo for the class.

The 5.7 is essentially the same engine as the 6.1 with 25 less ci to play with. Same heads, high compression, etc... That motor is the most egregious offender of the three Drag Pak engines by far. Mark my words, that combo will be good for 9.8's-9.9's in E/SA. I picked the 385 number because I think at that HP rating, they would make a good A/SA combo.

As for the 5.9, I based the 350 hp number off of how Mr. Teuton's beautiful blue Challenger ran at Belle Rose. Now that I do the math, I may be a tad high on that combo. For argument's sake, let's call it 335 hp. That would put the car in D/SA at nearly the same weight it now runs H/SA. 10.50 @ 127 is a pretty stout # for a D/SA I'd say. Again, we're assuming that's all it has. Based on the 127 mph speed, I bet it's got more in it.

As always, this is just my own opinion. Lord knows I've been wrong before. Just ask my wife!
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:50 PM   #5
Ken Haase
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Talking Re: A/SA heads-up

Lord knows I've been wrong before. Just ask my wife!

Umm, that's not very smart legal advice there, Counselor. You should be invoking spousal priviledge. lol
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Old 03-31-2010, 06:36 PM   #6
Mark Callanan
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Default Re: A/SA heads-up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jared Jordan View Post
I have a pretty good idea what sort of power those new motors are capable of making.

Now take the 6.1L. We've already seen that at their current HP rating they're capable of, at minimum, 9.70's @ 137 in A/SA trim. We don't even really know for sure that's as fast as one of them is capable of going (I don't believe that's all they've got). 415 horsepower would make them 200 lbs heavier than they currently are. Just based on what I've seen those cars run in comparison to the older, carbureted combo's, I don't think .2 of ET would be enough to keep them from being a VERY good combo for the class.

The 5.7 is essentially the same engine as the 6.1 with 25 less ci to play with. Same heads, high compression, etc... That motor is the most egregious offender of the three Drag Pak engines by far. Mark my words, that combo will be good for 9.8's-9.9's in E/SA. I picked the 385 number because I think at that HP rating, they would make a good A/SA combo.

As for the 5.9, I based the 350 hp number off of how Mr. Teuton's beautiful blue Challenger ran at Belle Rose. Now that I do the math, I may be a tad high on that combo. For argument's sake, let's call it 335 hp. That would put the car in D/SA at nearly the same weight it now runs H/SA. 10.50 @ 127 is a pretty stout # for a D/SA I'd say. Again, we're assuming that's all it has. Based on the 127 mph speed, I bet it's got more in it.

As always, this is just my own opinion. Lord knows I've been wrong before. Just ask my wife!

JARED
You are close on Teutons car at 350 not 335
I will bet that car is making 450- 500 HP Maybe higher
And wait till they start working on them.....


It should not be run in H and D might be correct but it will be a very fast D car
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