Is it time to fix Super Class Racing?

[Ron Finney]

Why is it the fast guys are always trying to move the index faster??? Is it because these guys can't win? You never see Langdon, Edwards, Richardson, or any of the other "hitters" ever complaining about the class index....they are too busy winning. If you want to go fast, step up to top dragster or top sportsman. As far making understandable for the spectator you are dreaming! The whole idea of a drag racer going too fast is what they don't understand, it doesn't matter what the index is...they don't understand any of the breakout classes, whether its stock, super stock or top dragster.....then you have the comp guys who lift at 1000' ft. and coast....come on, be real, the only thing that makes sense in drag racing is the first one there wins....that's the way it is in the movies, on the street and has always been understood by the average person. "Fortunately" we have these handicap classes otherwise I would not be able to afford to go racing in the "pure" format.

I do agree with the MPH limit for classes....many of these cars are runing way faster than they are certified for....I agree it would keep the cost down and help people at least "feel" more competitive. I happen to be one that can win in S/C at 148....but I do also believe that the faster car has some advantage having the race in front of them. But again, if I am "on" they have to be too....carrying numbers is only going to send them out the back door sooner! Which I personally happen to like!!!!

And to those that know me.....the new 572 is not so I can run "fast" it's so I can run 8.90.....got into the "98+ soup" at Columbus and couldn't run the number.....not going to happen again....I hope.

See ya all at the Nationals!!! stop by if your close....

[JMatt]

Originally Posted by Ron Finney

Why is it the fast guys are always trying to move the index faster??? Is it because these guys can't win?

No. And I don't think it's the racers that care at all. Making the indexes faster cuts down the amount of time on the throttle stop. And throttle stop time is apparently what fans don't like. So if the index was closer to what most cars actually can run, theoretically the racing would look better to fans. Personally, it doesn't matter to me. I've run 5.40 1/8th mile no electronics, 8.50 1/4 mile no electronics, and 9.90 SuperGas.

I tell everyone that while they may not like watching SuperGas, for me it's the biggest adrenaline rush of any format.

I also think it's funny that people complain about going slow on the stop. Do they realize we are still accelerating harder on the stop than stockers are going all out?

[Chris Williams]

So let's see if we can make this racing more complex and confusing. You try to run 8.90 (a random number if there ever was one), unless you run too quick then you lose, unless your opponent runs quicker than you then they lose, unless you go over some randomly selected MPH then you lose, unless your opponent goes faster than that in which they lose. Let's say you pick 160mph. I run 8.899 at 160, my opponent runs 8.900 at 161, who wins?

How do you pick the MPH? 160 in SC? Fine, chase more people to TD. Whatever number you choose, a certain percentage of people in each Super class will automatically get kicked out and sent to brackets like TD. And leave an even smaller SC field.

You guys are really making this complicated. As I said, just make it 8, 9, 10, even add 11 if you must, pro-tree index classes with electronics allowed, any body style.

This is a self-fixing problem. With the way it's going, the Super classes will die within five years. Car counts are down, spectators hate it, NHRA gives them little/no respect. We don't have to fix something that's on life support. Just pull the plug.

[JMatt]

Originally Posted by Chris Williams

So let's see if we can make this racing more complex and confusing. You try to run 8.90 (a random number if there ever was one), unless you run too quick then you lose, unless your opponent runs quicker than you then they lose, unless you go over some randomly selected MPH then you lose, unless your opponent goes faster than that in which they lose. Let's say you pick 160mph. I run 8.899 at 160, my opponent runs 8.900 at 161, who wins?

How do you pick the MPH? 160 in SC? Fine, chase more people to TD. Whatever number you choose, a certain percentage of people in each Super class will automatically get kicked out and sent to brackets like TD. And leave an even smaller SC field.

You guys are really making this complicated. As I said, just make it 8, 9, 10, even add 11 if you must, pro-tree index classes with electronics allowed, any body style.

This is a self-fixing problem. With the way it's going, the Super classes will die within five years. Car counts are down, spectators hate it, NHRA gives them little/no respect. We don't have to fix something that's on life support. Just pull the plug.

NHRA Unleashed. In my opinion NHRA is trying to grow NO ELECTRONICS index racing to replace the Super classes AND stock/superstock.

Think about it: NHRA can delete 100 s/ss classes. They can delete all the complex rules, the horsepower indexes, etc. They eliminate teardowns all all the labor that goes into policing s/ss. They also eliminate throttle stop racing fans don't seem to like. And instead of 100 class Wallys, they give out about 7.

They get side-by-side pro-tree launches. They get side-by-side racing. They get side-by-side finishes.

[Bob Verwold]

[QUOTE=Chris Williams;205521] Let's say you pick 160mph. I run 8.899 at 160, my opponent runs 8.900 at 161, who wins?

Do it as first or worst. Breaking out first, running over MPH worst....

Takes care of that problem.......................

[Chris Williams]

[QUOTE=Bob Verwold;205531]

Originally Posted by Chris Williams

Let's say you pick 160mph. I run 8.899 at 160, my opponent runs 8.900 at 161, who wins?

Do it as first or worst. Breaking out first, running over MPH worst....

Takes care of that problem.......................

Huh? So who wins in my example? They happen at the same instant. Which is "first"? What's "worst" about MPH? That's just random and arbitrary.

Really. You guys are just trying to make this sport more complex and silly.

[Chris Williams]

The more I think about this, the more pathetic it seems. To "fix" the classes that are already the laughing stock of all of drag racing because they're the only classes that don't run full out from the hit, you want to introduce another concept that has never been a part of the sport in any form, and by it's very nature, seems totally against everything that drag racing is: a speed limit. Wow, why don't you require that all Super class racers wear clown noses too?

All of this to "fix" the problem of big MPH cars. You don't have to run big MPH to win in the super classes. In my experience, the big MPH guys don't really have an advantage much beyond about 10MPH. When you see a person doing ~160 against some 185MPH fire breather, it's as much of a challenge to judge the stripe for both of them.

The big $$/HP/MPH problem exists in all classes of racing. In bracket classes, it sucks just as bad, the only difference is that the "throttle stop" is the tree. You still have the 7 second guy rushing up on the 9 second guy. In Super classes, it's just a little further down track. In the alky and pro classes, the big dollar teams (read: big HP) have a decided advantage.

Folks, this is just racing. People with more money to spend, have an advantage. I'm sorry, but it's like life. You have to find a way to be more creative with the bucks you can muster. And enjoy like hell when the little guy can beat the big guy.

[TS310C]

Ok, I have the following opinions (if anyone cares).

1. "Getting rid of t/s and or electronics to save money." I would think this would cost more racers than it would save, myself included. So what am I supposed to do with my motor and other equipment. There is no way my car will run in super gas or super comp without a throttle stop.

2. "If racers want to go fast, they can run T/S or T/D." There are too things wrong with this. First I can tell you from experience there is a HUGE difference in cost between running a fast super class car and running on of those classes. Sure you might be able to take the stop off and qualify at some races, but (at least in Div 3) there will be several races you wont qualify at. Nationals will be the same way. Secondly, there are a huge amount of roadsters that run in both S/G and S/C. They are not allowed in either T/S or T/D.

3. "We should go back to the way it used to be, the cars are getting too fast" Do you see any other forms of racing or any other classes going backwards? Top Fuel used to only run in the 9's but things evolve. Technology gets better and we go faster. It's all part of racing. Honestly it's not a cheap sport no matter how you do it. There are plenty of local programs that people can run with any car they want to (including what they drove to the track) there are options out there for everyone. There are pleny of racers that like things the way they are.

4. "The spectators don't like/understand super class racing." I have heard people say the stands are empty durring our classes. Have you looked at the stands durring other classes. I can say for Div 3 at least (with the exception of Norwalk) there aren't that many people there to begin with. If everyone attending came to watch durring the super classes the stands would still look empty. Untill NHRA learns from ADRL and starts giving tickets away (like Norwalk) there wont be many spectators for any class. Would you rather have 500 people pay $45 to get in or let 5000-10000 people in for free and sell food, beer and t-shirts.

This is just my opinion and everyone it entitled to agree or disagree with me.

Ok, I'm getting off my soap box.

[cicero819]

T.S. you can get back on your soap box anytime it's your priviledge of being free to say what you want anytime you want(unless it's your boss.lol) Seriously you can slow your engine with a new manifold restrictor plate (cost $10 and $50 if you have someone build it for you), Change carb also quite cheap or sell the engine to 10.5 racer they haven't reach bankruptcy level yet. The class wasn't made to entertain people, are you serious! yes it was made to entertain people who have buns in the stands, NHRA aren't as stupid as we think they are, they've got to look at the big picture and money is always the color used in that picture. The class pushed out Modified Production out so that NHRA could bring it it's bracket paying racer customer in the big show. Big motors and big everything doesn't make you win, you're all right but why is it so expensive now? I don't want to go backwards but would love to keep it around for as long as we can. This was the class that was going to inroduce new blood to racing and it did, most of you are exactly what was wanted when super classes were brought aboard. Just get rid of the timers or transmission shifting device that might cause a delay in the start. Drag racing should be balls out starts and then the finish line is all yours. Thanks.CR

[cicero819]

Chris, I love racing, sc, sg,sst will survive if you only do one little thing, remove all timers, just throttle stop the car. In think in 83 or 84 At INDY, a gentleman had bought Warren Johnson's Pro Stock and wanted to run Competition Eliminator with it but unfortunately he had one carburetor too many(I'm not sure if it's the only reason) NHRA decided to let him run but only in Super Gas if he wanted to compete, which he did going through time trials at over 7:50's 188mph he did try to slow it down but couldn't. The reason for this tale, just no more use of mega motors. Simple, I believe in the KISS principle. When something doesn't make sense anymore you must say or do something to save it. We now have now the technology to make planes take off and to land the aircraft without any human help. How easy could it be to make a pulse start system. I say just remove electronics completely(except ignition) and they will come. You can have that 1000hp motor but why would you. Simple and back to basics. CR