2011 Stock/Super Stock Rule Changes

[bill dedman]

Ed (F.), of course you don't want to answer "any more questions" because you can't.

You never did answer what is fair about a rule that can remove the red light jeopardy from the second car to leave (IF the first car redlights), and why such a lopsided rule should stay, since it's so easy to fix..... and if you can't answer that, then you have no argument.

Do you think that because you run a class car and I run a bracket car, your opinion is any more valid than mine? It's not. The reason it's not is that the procedures involved in staging, and starting a Stock and/or Bracket race, and the resultant red light system vagaries are IDENTICAL.

So, now, tell me how my opinion should carry any less weight than yours?

At least, Ed Wright pointed out a reason for this lopsided situation; he thinks it offsets the "clean tree" that sometimes, the slower car gets. How about when two cars race, and the difference in their dial-ins is just a few hundredths of a second? Where's the "clean tree", then?

It doesn't exist, in that case, but the first redlight rule stays....

Try again, Mr. Wright... that one only works part of the time.

[art leong]

Is this the "kinder gentler" Ed?
I always leave first, And it would be a benefit for me for them to put in a worst redlight rule. BUT.
I have under $20,000 in my whole race operation. Not counting my towing stuff.
I race against cars that have more than that in their motors alone.
If I race a slow superstocker I'm probably in the line of sight with their tree.
If I'm racing a fast superstocker they have to wait about 4 full seconds.
Then come at me on the other end 50 mph faster than me.
It's not a perfect world. But the rule was that way before I built the car,
So as far as I'm concerned leave it alone.

[hemidup]

With all this "red light" racing BS, whatever happened to "green light' racing? lol

[Ed Wright]

Doesn't matter what you think anyway Bill, it's not going to change. I think you just like to argue and have the attention.

[Adger Smith]

I just don't see what the big deal is about the red light. We have raced with it the way it is for about 4 decades. What? We aren't accustomed to it? We don't know what the rule is? OH! we want to change something to confuse the few fans we have left in the stands.
I think I've heard more fast guys say "I just couldn't wait" than the slow guy say they couldn't wait on the tree. So who really has the advantage on the tree? Fast or slow it's usually not the guy with his head in his A**... that has the advantage. Isn't it usually your own fault for a redlite? Now we are putting blame on the system. Let's move on to something constructive, like track conditions and run order.

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

I just don't see what the big deal is about the red light. We have raced with it the way it is for about 4 decades. What? We aren't accustomed to it? We don't know what the rule is? OH! we want to change something to confuse the few fans we have left in the stands.
I think I've heard more fast guys say "I just couldn't wait" than the slow guy say they couldn't wait on the tree. So who really has the advantage on the tree? Fast or slow it's usually not the guy with his head in his A**... that has the advantage. Isn't it usually your own fault for a redlite? Now we are putting blame on the system. Let's move on to something constructive, like track conditions and run order.

Yes, Adger, it's been screwing the first driver to leave for 40 years. Don't you think that's long enough? I do... and yes, we're so accustomed to it that it seems "right." Until you really think about it. Took me a long time to realize just how unnecesarily wrong it was/is.

"Isn't it usually your own fault for a redlite?" Absolutely, but is that any reason to deprive the guy in the other lane of his chance to do it even worse? I can't see why everyone shouldn't have the same chance to redlite. Do you? As it is, they don't.

If I am the first to leave, and I redlight, it is the fault of tthe CURRENT system that the second driver will never have his chance to redlight. Been that way for nearly 40 years, BECAUSE they didn't know how to fix it, for a long time.

That's no longer a valid excuse. Now, they know how.

Fixing this would be VERY constructive, and the fans in the stands would have no reason to be confused; only one redlight will show... the worse one, while the win light shows in the other lane. What's confusing about that?

Nothing.

[Ed Carpenter]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Yes, Adger, it's been screwing the first driver to leave for 40 years. Don't you think that's long enough? I do... and yes, we're so accustomed to it that it seems "right." Until you really think about it. Took me a long time to realize just how unnecesarily wrong it was/is.

"Isn't it usually your own fault for a redlite?" Absolutely, but is that any reason to deprive the guy in the other lane of his chance to do it even worse? I can't see why everyone shouldn't have the same chance to redlite. Do you? As it is, they don't.

If I am the first to leave, and I redlight, it is the fault of tthe CURRENT system that the second driver will never have his chance to redlight. Been that way for nearly 40 years, BECAUSE they didn't know how to fix it, for a long time.

That's no longer a valid excuse. Now, they know how.

Fixing this would be VERY constructive, and the fans in the stands would have no reason to be confused; only one redlight will show... the worse one, while the win light shows in the other lane. What's confusing about that?

Nothing.

Cut a good light in your lane and nothing else matters.

[Jason]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Yes, Adger, it's been screwing the first driver to leave for 40 years. Don't you think that's long enough? I do... and yes, we're so accustomed to it that it seems "right." Until you really think about it. Took me a long time to realize just how unnecesarily wrong it was/is.

"Isn't it usually your own fault for a redlite?" Absolutely, but is that any reason to deprive the guy in the other lane of his chance to do it even worse? I can't see why everyone shouldn't have the same chance to redlite. Do you? As it is, they don't.

If I am the first to leave, and I redlight, it is the fault of tthe CURRENT system that the second driver will never have his chance to redlight. Been that way for nearly 40 years, BECAUSE they didn't know how to fix it, for a long time.

That's no longer a valid excuse. Now, they know how.

Fixing this would be VERY constructive, and the fans in the stands would have no reason to be confused; only one redlight will show... the worse one, while the win light shows in the other lane. What's confusing about that?

Nothing.

Give it up Bill. It ain't gonna happen. Why? Because the guy who tried to get mufflers on Stock and SS would have been your only hope and he is long gone. Most will admit he was the best at getting unwanted changes accepted in the rulebook. Too bad for you and your idea...great for the rest of us.

[hemidup]

Originally Posted by Adger Smith

I just don't see what the big deal is about the red light. We have raced with it the way it is for about 4 decades. What? We aren't accustomed to it? We don't know what the rule is? OH! we want to change something to confuse the few fans we have left in the stands.
I think I've heard more fast guys say "I just couldn't wait" than the slow guy say they couldn't wait on the tree. So who really has the advantage on the tree? Fast or slow it's usually not the guy with his head in his A**... that has the advantage. Isn't it usually your own fault for a redlite? Now we are putting blame on the system. Let's move on to something constructive, like track conditions and run order.

Well said Adger.

Let me think back to one of my last races....5 day's of no pay, 4 night's at $105 per night at the local motel, 1200 miles worth of diesel @ 10 mpg and at $3.44 a gallon, plus wear and tear. That was a whole lot of money spent for a -.002 red weekend of fun. But still, I wouldn't have missed it for the world.

[Adger Smith]

Hey Bill I'm a slow Super Stock car and it dosn't bother me. I've had the second guy redlite more than I have. What's the matter? Slow car drivers can't take advantage of the clean tree? Yes, it is an advantage to me to leave first. I've raced almost every way. Slow Stocker to A/ED. I can read the tree better and tell what kind of light I get without any distraction. That allows me to run the finish line the best way, the way I want to do it. Sit in an A/ED and watch some slower car move out on you and then you try to blow off the line with a 1 second sixty foot. I totally disagree with all your issues with the current system. I just think it is the mental thing that resides on a persons shoulders. With the issues you have with being the slow car you are probably beating yourself more than the other guy. Come on give it up. It is what it is, Has been and no one in NHRA is interested in changing it. It's not worth an more lip service. I've said my piece and I'll continue to race my way and with in the system we have, whether I leave first or last. I'm out of here!