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Old 11-20-2010, 11:45 AM   #1
Adger Smith
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Default Re: 2011 ahfs

Good points Stocker 2, But

You loose the Performance issue of Stock and SS. What does qualifying become? It becomes time trials where you learn what to dial first round and beyond. It leaves the race with only one incentive to go faster. Possible heads up runs. Oh, there is one other incentive, EGO..... The way the quota entry system works it kills the 128 car qualifying issues. If you have a race with a 70 quota you are in if you just attend. Indy and a few div 1 races will be the only places you are in a situation to go fast and make the 128 cutoff. So There goes that reason to be fast.
How is this going to hurt the bread and butter business of Stock/SS engine and head suppliers? It looks like if a guy wants real performance he has to race in TD or TS where the qualified field still stands for performance.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:26 PM   #2
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Default Re: 2011 ahfs

"You lose the Performance issue of Stock and S/S." And your point is???? Look where the pursuit of performance has gotten us. It is on the verge of destroying Stock.

With an AHFS hit, it would take several times to keep a BB Chevy from running the index. Less than 10% of the cars cannot run at least .3 under. Besides it does not take $5000 heads on a Stocker to run below the index.

One of the problems is $25K engines and $5K heads in Stock. That don't sound like bread and butter to 2/3 of the racers. Some of you guys have priced yourself into too high a level in the name of performance (and ego). You've been paying everyone else FOR horsepower in order to go fast, now its time to start paying WITH horsepower for going too fast.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:51 PM   #3
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Default Re: 2011 ahfs

I don't know where you got your numbers. You sure need to take a look at the latest Nitro Joe's stats. I don't think your numbers fit the stats.

Billy, in my case I have found it is also a new group of customers that are showing up with DP and Ford combos. I haven't had a "Real" stocker engine in the shop for several years. A few Crate motors then all of a sudden these DP's show up.

Quote Stocker 2 "Just like NHRA doesn't care enough to throw out the bogus parts, they certainly won't care about throwing out some bogus horsepower ratings."

I thought this is what the new and enhanced AHFS was going to do for everyone.

Like Stocker 2 said..
I think You hit he nail on the head: Quote; You've been paying everyone else FOR horsepower in order to go fast, now its time to start paying WITH horsepower for going too fast.
It looks like NHRA has found it easier, probably cheaper too, to work a few numbers and stats after a race than do tech and correctly factor combos. So we now have a system that punishes anyone wanting to go faster.
Oh well, it is what it is.
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Old 11-20-2010, 12:56 PM   #4
Bryan Worner
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Default Re: 2011 ahfs

Mike. If I'm reading this right, does this mean that if a Cavalier or Cobalt running a particular combination in SS/GT, that is also being run in a GT Camaro or Firebird, triggers and gets hp, that ONLY the Cavalier or Cobalt gets that hp, not the Camaro or Firebird???

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the way I read it!
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Old 11-20-2010, 01:02 PM   #5
Jeff Niceswanger
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Default Re: 2011 ahfs

Bryan, It's always said that. It just hasn't been enforced in GT. Maybe now it will be.
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Old 11-20-2010, 03:53 PM   #6
Travis Miller
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Default Re: 2011 ahfs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan Worner View Post
Mike. If I'm reading this right, does this mean that if a Cavalier or Cobalt running a particular combination in SS/GT, that is also being run in a GT Camaro or Firebird, triggers and gets hp, that ONLY the Cavalier or Cobalt gets that hp, not the Camaro or Firebird???

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the way I read it!
Horsepower changes for a GT engine does not matter what body it is used in.

Horsepower changes that effect certain bodies is only for Stock and regular S/S.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Last edited by Travis Miller; 11-20-2010 at 04:25 PM.
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Old 11-20-2010, 05:24 PM   #7
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Cool Re: 2011 ahfs

My post was not that far off the intent of the original thread. It has a lot to do with WHY the AHFS and other rules have changed over the years. True a lot do not cheat or "fudge" the rules as they say (in stock) but some do and it makes it hard for the guy on a budget and trying to do things the right way. Some will do ANYTHING to keep up with the ones who do run fast. Ive seen a lot of this stuff over the years and also know some shops and racers that do it still and get away with it. I have seen it in tear down myself and sadly wasnt allowed to drop the hammer on certain cars due to politics. The fast ones who are not doing anything "Funny" are just lucky to have a combo that is rated....shall we say....better than others. If you dont believe any of it then I have some waterfront property in Arazona for sale a a good price. Believe what you want.
As far as your post below......It just part of racing. Live with it.

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Old 11-20-2010, 05:39 PM   #8
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Default Re: 2011 ahfs

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I think a few people are getting off the subject here, or getting away from the root of the problem that were gonna have once this new rule is implimented. Exactly why I dont ever post, and this is the first subject and probably the last ill ever get on a forum for as ive got work to do, but this situation is real important to me. There are always two sides to the coin, many many differnet opinions, those people that know me know that I dislike conflict, and im truly sorry if I will make anyone angry at me. I know that some might take this as an insult as I need to express this as I would to my 10 year old daughter.

WE WILL NEVER EVER BE ABLE TO RUN OUR CARS ALL OUT AGAIN !!!

WHEN I GET HP YOU WILL TOO !! LOTS !!

WHEN ANOTHER GUY IN YOUR CLASS WITH A FAST CAR GETS HP, YOU WILL GET IT TOO !! LOTS !!

AT ALTITUDE TRACKS ON MONDAY THERE WILL BE CLASSES GETTING HP !!

AT TRACKS WITH GOOD AIR THE TOP HALF OF THE FIELD WILL LOOK LIKE FOOLS TRYING TO SLOW THERE CARS DOWN !!

WHEN WE GET HP FOR YOUR COMBO YOU WILL BE VERY ANGRY AT US !!

CLASS ELIMINATIONS WILL BECOME A JOKE !!

If the above is acceptabe to you Stock / Super Stock racers that arent capable of looking into the future and seeing this is a bad idea so be it, as I said there are many sides to the coin. But I myself, and I see many others are not in agreeance and im gonna at least speak my mind. I dont feel that talking about how people use modified heads, soft combos, ect ect are even relevant here. Believe it or not we dont all cheat, and many of us have been thru teardown and had no issues. Some racers choose soft combos as its an easier, more cost effective way to build a faster race car. All of us have that same choice. But should us racers at the top half of the ladder pay the consequences for the racers that dont have time to flog there combos as we do, or have the extra money to buy the best parts as we have. Again, I dont feel any of this is relevant to the new AHFS proposed rule. I think we all need to look at the big picture and realize the bold thing I said above. Stock / Super Stock is a performance based class, by making this change the performance based part will be gone

Mark Lelchook
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Mark I agree 100%
If this goes through With in 5 years all will be racing brackets 1 through 5 .
No tear downs no record keeping. It will be a win win for NHRA Because they will have plenty of "can't build a fast car" strokes to show up and brag to their friends and family about how fast they are. Especially when there is nobody to compare them with. I see it all the time on the Neons.org site. "who has the fastest neon" that runs street tires, or runs pump gas, or only run 10 psi boost etc. etc.
In the long run this is going to get to everyone.
At this point I'm sorry I even built my car. I built my car to go fast within class rules now if I do go 1.50 under I get the index whacked almost half a second Thats B S
Any one want to buy a neon that can fly.
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Old 11-20-2010, 06:54 PM   #9
Billy Nees
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Default Re: 2011 ahfs

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Originally Posted by art leong View Post
If this goes through With in 5 years all will be racing brackets 1 through 5
Hey Artie, wake up! There is only one nail left to drive and the coffin is sealed!
"No more heads-up runs in eliminations!"
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Old 11-25-2010, 01:04 PM   #10
Bryan Worner
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Default Re: 2011 ahfs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travis Miller View Post
Horsepower changes for a GT engine does not matter what body it is used in.

Horsepower changes that effect certain bodies is only for Stock and regular S/S.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)
Travis. Then why doesn't it state that in this section of the system? Isn't GT part of Super Stock? Wasn't GT created to save SS?? Shouldn't the same rules apply? The ONLY difference from GT to Super Stock is the years of the car and combo must match in SS? Am I right or wrong?

If I'm right, your earlier statement makes no sense! The rule should be enforced for the whole class or not at all!
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