Drive By Wire

BobUnkefer · 11-20-2010, 03:37 PM

Didn't Matusek have an issue with their Mustang when they WANTED to & DID convert their setup to a throttle cable instead of a wire and tech bounced them because it wasn't a factory set up? They did it for the safety of the setup if I remember correctly.

Unk

keith ohanesian · 11-20-2010, 04:04 PM

UMM leaving off the top.. Can when say timers???

Chad Rhodes · 11-20-2010, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keith ohanesian

UMM leaving off the top.. Can when say timers???

you know Keith, I hadn't thought of that. If you had a device that would send a default signal ( like a two step) while you ahd a particular button depressed it could easly be wired to a timer to interrupt/delay the throttle signal. Nothing would appear weird from the outside of the car

magnumv8 · 11-21-2010, 02:20 PM

As far as DBW and safety is concerned Toyota didn't have the proper defaults in their programming to eliminate a possible open throttle failure.....most OEM's run DUAL TPS sensors on the throttle blades, one to follow the throttle position as to the pedal position and the other to verify that this indeed happened and if not to throw the engine into a "limp" mode to allow control until it can be repaired.....it would not be difficult, as some have mentioned, to program this system to do anything you would like to try and the best part is it would be undetectable and if properly done impossible to find.....sort of like a "ghost in the machine"....

As a journeyman industrial machine builder, I have seen and used some really interesting and versatile micro sensors, software, and inovative programming techniques to accomplish many issues relating to automated industrial machines.....and now that sensors, computers and software are being used to control an automotive "machine".....good luck....the only limiting factor is ones imagination.....

D L Rambo....

Ed Wright · 11-21-2010, 02:44 PM

First, you can move the pedal faster than the little motor moves the throttle blade(s), I get that compaint all the time from guys trying to cut lights when foot brakingate model DBW cars. Not a method you would want to use with a "1.5 second delay off the top bulb. Guys need to understand that you can't just do that without a look-up table in the software for pedal response delay. (they do not exist in OEM ECUs) maybe with some aftermarket ECU, not the factory stuff. Getting a school kid to write something for a P.C. is one thing, a Ford, MOPAR or GM computer is another. Want to close the throttle at higher MPH or RPM? They do not contain look-up tables for that either. No look-up table for that? Then you can't make it do that. Guys throwing this stuff out obviously don't do this kind of work. I get some pretty silly requests, they seem to think it's the same as programming a P.C. No college or night writing an operating system for a Ford ECU so you could add all the look-up tables to do those things. Might get a Ford calibrator to have it done.

Ed Wright · 11-21-2010, 02:47 PM

Sean, I don't think I would have told that!
Your gonna have them seeing black helicopters

Sean Cour · 11-21-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Sean, I don't think I would have told that!
Your gonna have them seeing black helicopters

LMAO Ed.

Chad Rhodes · 11-21-2010, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Sean, I don't think I would have told that!
Your gonna have them seeing black helicopters

yea, that's one big conspiracy

Bob Pagano · 11-20-2010, 04:15 PM

Holy crap another can of worms, how will they sweep that under the carpet?? Rule Change to follow I bet !

Travis Miller · 11-20-2010, 04:16 PM

Drive by wire is covered in the 2011 NHRA rulebook. It can be found in the STOCK Section 10A, page 4 under FUEL INJECTION. The 2nd sentence reads as follows;

"If OEM throttle body (s) was equipped with electronic throttle control (i.e., drive by wire), the throttle body (s) may be adapted to mechanical throttle linkage if an aftermarket OEM-type electronic-fuel-injection system is used."

Anyone wanting to download the 2011 NHRA rulebook can do so by going to NHRA.com and click on the archive section. When the archive page comes up, scroll down to 11/17/10 for the rulebook. BTW the rulebook download is free to members only.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

11-20-2010, 03:37 PM	#1
BobUnkefer Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 465 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Drive By Wire Didn't Matusek have an issue with their Mustang when they WANTED to & DID convert their setup to a throttle cable instead of a wire and tech bounced them because it wasn't a factory set up? They did it for the safety of the setup if I remember correctly. Unk __________________ Bob Unkefer 4409 STK

11-20-2010, 04:04 PM	#2
keith ohanesian Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 392 Likes: 0 Liked 1 Time in 1 Post	Re: Drive By Wire UMM leaving off the top.. Can when say timers??? __________________ No prep is king

11-21-2010, 02:20 PM	#4
magnumv8 Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Coraopolis, Pa. Posts: 172 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Drive By Wire As far as DBW and safety is concerned Toyota didn't have the proper defaults in their programming to eliminate a possible open throttle failure.....most OEM's run DUAL TPS sensors on the throttle blades, one to follow the throttle position as to the pedal position and the other to verify that this indeed happened and if not to throw the engine into a "limp" mode to allow control until it can be repaired.....it would not be difficult, as some have mentioned, to program this system to do anything you would like to try and the best part is it would be undetectable and if properly done impossible to find.....sort of like a "ghost in the machine".... As a journeyman industrial machine builder, I have seen and used some really interesting and versatile micro sensors, software, and inovative programming techniques to accomplish many issues relating to automated industrial machines.....and now that sensors, computers and software are being used to control an automotive "machine".....good luck....the only limiting factor is ones imagination..... D L Rambo....

11-21-2010, 02:44 PM	#5
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Drive By Wire First, you can move the pedal faster than the little motor moves the throttle blade(s), I get that compaint all the time from guys trying to cut lights when foot brakingate model DBW cars. Not a method you would want to use with a "1.5 second delay off the top bulb. Guys need to understand that you can't just do that without a look-up table in the software for pedal response delay. (they do not exist in OEM ECUs) maybe with some aftermarket ECU, not the factory stuff. Getting a school kid to write something for a P.C. is one thing, a Ford, MOPAR or GM computer is another. Want to close the throttle at higher MPH or RPM? They do not contain look-up tables for that either. No look-up table for that? Then you can't make it do that. Guys throwing this stuff out obviously don't do this kind of work. I get some pretty silly requests, they seem to think it's the same as programming a P.C. No college or night writing an operating system for a Ford ECU so you could add all the look-up tables to do those things. Might get a Ford calibrator to have it done. __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

11-21-2010, 02:47 PM	#6
Ed Wright Veteran Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Sand Springs, OK Posts: 8,132 Likes: 896 Liked 390 Times in 170 Posts	Re: Drive By Wire Sean, I don't think I would have told that! Your gonna have them seeing black helicopters __________________ Ed Wright 4156 SS/JA

11-20-2010, 04:15 PM	#9
Bob Pagano VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: New Holland, PA Mooresville,NC Posts: 1,163 Likes: 243 Liked 16 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Drive By Wire Holy crap another can of worms, how will they sweep that under the carpet?? Rule Change to follow I bet ! __________________ Bob Pagano A/SA

11-20-2010, 04:16 PM	#10
Travis Miller Member Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 478 Likes: 1 Liked 276 Times in 27 Posts	Re: Drive By Wire Drive by wire is covered in the 2011 NHRA rulebook. It can be found in the STOCK Section 10A, page 4 under FUEL INJECTION. The 2nd sentence reads as follows; "If OEM throttle body (s) was equipped with electronic throttle control (i.e., drive by wire), the throttle body (s) may be adapted to mechanical throttle linkage if an aftermarket OEM-type electronic-fuel-injection system is used." Anyone wanting to download the 2011 NHRA rulebook can do so by going to NHRA.com and click on the archive section. When the archive page comes up, scroll down to 11/17/10 for the rulebook. BTW the rulebook download is free to members only. Travis Miller (Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

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