2011 ahfs

[Travis Miller]

Originally Posted by Bryan Worner

Mike. If I'm reading this right, does this mean that if a Cavalier or Cobalt running a particular combination in SS/GT, that is also being run in a GT Camaro or Firebird, triggers and gets hp, that ONLY the Cavalier or Cobalt gets that hp, not the Camaro or Firebird???

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that is the way I read it!

Horsepower changes for a GT engine does not matter what body it is used in.

Horsepower changes that effect certain bodies is only for Stock and regular S/S.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

[X-TECH MAN]

My post was not that far off the intent of the original thread. It has a lot to do with WHY the AHFS and other rules have changed over the years. True a lot do not cheat or "fudge" the rules as they say (in stock) but some do and it makes it hard for the guy on a budget and trying to do things the right way. Some will do ANYTHING to keep up with the ones who do run fast. Ive seen a lot of this stuff over the years and also know some shops and racers that do it still and get away with it. I have seen it in tear down myself and sadly wasnt allowed to drop the hammer on certain cars due to politics. The fast ones who are not doing anything "Funny" are just lucky to have a combo that is rated....shall we say....better than others. If you dont believe any of it then I have some waterfront property in Arazona for sale a a good price. Believe what you want.
As far as your post below......It just part of racing. Live with it.

[art leong]

Originally Posted by A56

I think a few people are getting off the subject here, or getting away from the root of the problem that were gonna have once this new rule is implimented. Exactly why I dont ever post, and this is the first subject and probably the last ill ever get on a forum for as ive got work to do, but this situation is real important to me. There are always two sides to the coin, many many differnet opinions, those people that know me know that I dislike conflict, and im truly sorry if I will make anyone angry at me. I know that some might take this as an insult as I need to express this as I would to my 10 year old daughter.

WE WILL NEVER EVER BE ABLE TO RUN OUR CARS ALL OUT AGAIN !!!

WHEN I GET HP YOU WILL TOO !! LOTS !!

WHEN ANOTHER GUY IN YOUR CLASS WITH A FAST CAR GETS HP, YOU WILL GET IT TOO !! LOTS !!

AT ALTITUDE TRACKS ON MONDAY THERE WILL BE CLASSES GETTING HP !!

AT TRACKS WITH GOOD AIR THE TOP HALF OF THE FIELD WILL LOOK LIKE FOOLS TRYING TO SLOW THERE CARS DOWN !!

WHEN WE GET HP FOR YOUR COMBO YOU WILL BE VERY ANGRY AT US !!

CLASS ELIMINATIONS WILL BECOME A JOKE !!

If the above is acceptabe to you Stock / Super Stock racers that arent capable of looking into the future and seeing this is a bad idea so be it, as I said there are many sides to the coin. But I myself, and I see many others are not in agreeance and im gonna at least speak my mind. I dont feel that talking about how people use modified heads, soft combos, ect ect are even relevant here. Believe it or not we dont all cheat, and many of us have been thru teardown and had no issues. Some racers choose soft combos as its an easier, more cost effective way to build a faster race car. All of us have that same choice. But should us racers at the top half of the ladder pay the consequences for the racers that dont have time to flog there combos as we do, or have the extra money to buy the best parts as we have. Again, I dont feel any of this is relevant to the new AHFS proposed rule. I think we all need to look at the big picture and realize the bold thing I said above. Stock / Super Stock is a performance based class, by making this change the performance based part will be gone

Mark Lelchook
E/SA # 704

Mark I agree 100%
If this goes through With in 5 years all will be racing brackets 1 through 5 .
No tear downs no record keeping. It will be a win win for NHRA Because they will have plenty of "can't build a fast car" strokes to show up and brag to their friends and family about how fast they are. Especially when there is nobody to compare them with. I see it all the time on the Neons.org site. "who has the fastest neon" that runs street tires, or runs pump gas, or only run 10 psi boost etc. etc.
In the long run this is going to get to everyone.
At this point I'm sorry I even built my car. I built my car to go fast within class rules now if I do go 1.50 under I get the index whacked almost half a second Thats B S
Any one want to buy a neon that can fly.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by art leong

If this goes through With in 5 years all will be racing brackets 1 through 5

Hey Artie, wake up! There is only one nail left to drive and the coffin is sealed!
"No more heads-up runs in eliminations!"

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

Hey Artie, wake up! There is only one nail left to drive and the coffin is sealed!
"No more heads-up runs in eliminations!"

I agree Billy That's why I stated "does anyone want to buy a Real Fast Neon"

[Kent Hanley]

When Mike started this thread with the latest version of the AHFS he didn't provide you with the history of what has been going on for the last few months. This is the short version.

1. Several SRAC members approached NHRA about separating the new combinations by putting them in to separate classes like NHRA did with the FI cars years ago. Both written and verbal requests including surveys from racers.

We didn't get a response back NHRA. .

2, Then we were sent a proposal from NHRA doing away with the existing AHFS as we know it. The new rule was for stock and super stock to run off of a 1.10 under CIC system like Comp. So any one run by one person running quicker than 1.10 under at any National event , Divisional race or National open, all the racers running that combination across the country would be hit HP on the Tuesday following the race. The farther under 1.10 the harder everyone would be hit.

3. The SRAC voted that proposal down by a nearly unanimous vote. Any one at Vegas talking to certain tech officials were told this was going to be the new rule for 2011.

4. The SRAC then quickly came back with a nearly unanimous proposal to leave the AHFS the same as it is has been with the automatic 1.25 trigger and only for national events with the current 1.10 trigger just like it had been BUT with increased hits for combinations running quicker than 1.30 under ( similar scale as you see in the new proposal.) The only change was tiered increase in hp or indexes adjustments for combinations running quicker than 1.25 under because as you know whether you run 1.26 or 1.85 under you were only hit 3.25% and this would take forever for underrated combinations to be adjusted properly.

5. Then NHRA came back with the rule than Mike started of this post with

I hope this helps as to what has been going on over the last couple months and brings everyone up to speed..

If you want to know who your SRAC is here is the link http://sportsman.nhra.com/content/sp...9683&zoneid=85

Kent

[Ed Wright]

People that just want to bracket race with no class run-offs or heads ups can do that at home every weekend can't they? I don't see anything wrong with the proposal if they don't use corrected times at altitude tracks. It's a lot more liberal than last year's system unless you run WAY under. Right? I didn't hear all this last year. Is everybody actually all that much faster (review trigger .3 lower) than last season? The two times I had to watch that in 2009 (had problems last year) I just added weight and backed the timing down. Got 3/10ths more leeway now. Other than the new bogus cars, how many of you are actually that fast?

Not trying to offend anybody, just curious.

[Wade_Owens]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Other than the new bogus cars, how many of you are actually that fast?

Not trying to offend anybody, just curious.

Ed, I have great respect for you. You have seen alot during your years of racing. Much more than me. BUT, it may not be how fast anyone is today or next year, or the following year. Who knows how fast any certain combo could go. But with the penalties in place, why try? I want to try some new stuff, I think it will help. But as of today, why bother?

Wade

[Bryan Worner]

Originally Posted by Travis Miller

Horsepower changes for a GT engine does not matter what body it is used in.

Horsepower changes that effect certain bodies is only for Stock and regular S/S.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)

Travis. Then why doesn't it state that in this section of the system? Isn't GT part of Super Stock? Wasn't GT created to save SS?? Shouldn't the same rules apply? The ONLY difference from GT to Super Stock is the years of the car and combo must match in SS? Am I right or wrong?

If I'm right, your earlier statement makes no sense! The rule should be enforced for the whole class or not at all!

[Travis Miller]

Originally Posted by Bryan Worner

Travis. Then why doesn't it state that in this section of the system? Isn't GT part of Super Stock? Wasn't GT created to save SS?? Shouldn't the same rules apply? The ONLY difference from GT to Super Stock is the years of the car and combo must match in SS? Am I right or wrong?

If I'm right, your earlier statement makes no sense! The rule should be enforced for the whole class or not at all!

I'll see if I can answer your questions one at a time.


It does. In the introduction of SECTION 10B - SUPER STOCK/GT the rulebook states..."Cars will be classified by using the shipping weight of the body divided by the horsepower or performance rating of the engine used." I do not read anywhere that the GT engine horsepower rating is different when used in a FWD as opposed to a RWD car. If you would like to submit that rule change for 2012, a letter must be received by the S/SS Committee asking for that change no later than the end of July 2011.


Yes


No. GT was created because in the early '80's it looked like the V8 engine was no longer going to be produced and NHRA saw a way to still have new models running each year by using the old tried and true V8s. NHRA knew the older SS cars would be raced for a long time to come.


They cannot. FWD conversions are not allowed in regular SS.


That is a partially correct statement. There are other differences in GT and SS especially concerning FWD cars.


It's a free country. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. Personally my opinion is it makes complete sense.


The whole class (actually the eliminator) consists of SS, SS/GT, GT/Truck, Modified Stock, Modified Truck, Modified, and SS/MX.

Now since that's all out of the way, until the time that the rule gets changed, GT horsepowers will remain the same for FWD conversions as they are for RWD cars. With all that is going on right now with Stock and SS, figuring horsepowers different for FWD and RWD cars in GT does not look likely anytime soon.

Travis Miller

(Disclaimer: Opinions expressed by me on this forum are exactly that, my opinions.)