2011 ahfs

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Travis Miller

It looks like a 1.10 under immediate hit on the revised AHFS for 2011 would have done much more for getting horsepowers corrected and done it a lot quicker than 1.20 under.

Considering that .3 was taken off the indexes this year, a 1.10 under immediate hit would have been exactly the same as the old 1.40 under hit. I seem to remember everyone being very happy with the hit set at 1.40 under. Setting the new hit at 1.20 under puts us back to the same as when the AHFS started in 2002 with a hit of 1.50 under.

x2!

What some people seem to forget is that HP factors are representative of a car's true potential. WELLLL... guess what? If you hit the HP trigger, then you have shown that your combination makes more HP, and it SHOULD be factored appropriately! What's the point in having *any* HP factoring is someone is always going to say "You're punishing me for all my hard work!". I'm sorry, but there is no entitlement. Either your car is factored correctly or its not. If you surpass a certain threshold with all of your "hard work", then you've shown that it is not factored correctly. Just because you get hit with HP and have to carry more weight or run the next faster class does not mean you're being punished. Quite the contrary, it's an outstanding accomplishment. Just because you might get hit with HP doesn't mean you stop working. Add the weight or move to the next class, and keep working! It's all relative. There is no limit to what you can accomplish.

On a separate note, once again, I am shocked by the lack of discussion about reducing the number of classes, whether it be wider weight breaks, sticks n' autos, or what have you -- any of which would generate more heads-up racing (which working in concert with the AHFS would help bring combos into line much quicker). Any so-called "performance guy" against this should be embarrased that it takes a bracket racer to bring it up.

OR, we could just use the 15 years of data that have already been compiled, do simple run completion to make up for the 1000' dumpers, utilize McCarty's bell curve, reset ALL of the classes, indexes, and HP factors ONCE right now, and then everybody could run with no trigger for another 5 years! Bang, we're back to real racing, everybody can do "hard work" on their combination without fear, and everybody can race to the finish line without fear. Or does that make too much sense?

[Paul Merolla]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

x2!

What some people seem to forget is that HP factors are representative of a car's true potential. WELLLL... guess what? If you hit the HP trigger, then you have shown that your combination makes more HP, and it SHOULD be factored appropriately! What's the point in having *any* HP factoring is someone is always going to say "You're punishing me for all my hard work!". I'm sorry, but there is no entitlement. Either your car is factored correctly or its not. If you surpass a certain threshold with all of your "hard work", then you've shown that it is not factored correctly. Just because you get hit with HP and have to carry more weight or run the next faster class does not mean you're being punished. Quite the contrary, it's an outstanding accomplishment. Just because you might get hit with HP doesn't mean you stop working. Add the weight or move to the next class, and keep working! It's all relative. There is no limit to what you can accomplish.

On a separate note, once again, I am shocked by the lack of discussion about reducing the number of classes, whether it be wider weight breaks, sticks n' autos, or what have you -- any of which would generate more heads-up racing (which working in concert with the AHFS would help bring combos into line much quicker). Any so-called "performance guy" against this should be embarrased that it takes a bracket racer to bring it up.

OR, we could just use the 15 years of data that have already been compiled, do simple run completion to make up for the 1000' dumpers, utilize McCarty's bell curve, reset ALL of the classes, indexes, and HP factors ONCE right now, and then everybody could run with no trigger for another 5 years! Bang, we're back to real racing, everybody can do "hard work" on their combination without fear, and everybody can race to the finish line without fear. Or does that make too much sense?

Waaaay too much sense, Michael.

[Jeff Teuton]

I think the reality of the data which obviously NHRA does not have about the true state of these two eliminators might show a different picture. With over 15000 runs in Stock and over 11000 in Super Stock, the picture is somewhat different. That is for 2010. The new AHFS would have accelerated the newer cars, but a lot of older cars would get some adjustment also. I think more than most people would think. I don't have all of it in my computer at home, but there is a pattern of lots of older cars that steadily thrash all year that would get the semi annual adjustment where most of the adjustment for the newer cars is earned on instant adjustment. Anyone interested in their combo? Post what you run and I will look it up with all the juicy details, inenudo, and other things that make this exciting. Travis, I think there were 632 or so runs in Stock over 110 under. Lot's of adjustment there. You couldn't keep up. Yeah, maybe you could.

[Jeff Teuton]

Michael, it would take more than a bell curve to do what you want. Maybe a 'Gong" curve.
As far as the heads up racing, you know I am 300% for that, but I'm telling you, most Stock and Super Stock racers are not ready for a lot of heads up. It's like sighting Santo Domingo from the deck of the Santa Maria. A new experience, and the Indians aren't always friendly. Look at SS/AH. Cost of doing that outran inflation by 2,676,438%, and most of the ultra fast can't run rounds any more.

[thomas sheehan]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

x2!

What some people seem to forget is that HP factors are representative of a car's true potential. WELLLL... guess what? If you hit the HP trigger, then you have shown that your combination makes more HP, and it SHOULD be factored appropriately! What's the point in having *any* HP factoring is someone is always going to say "You're punishing me for all my hard work!". I'm sorry, but there is no entitlement. Either your car is factored correctly or its not. If you surpass a certain threshold with all of your "hard work", then you've shown that it is not factored correctly. Just because you get hit with HP and have to carry more weight or run the next faster class does not mean you're being punished. Quite the contrary, it's an outstanding accomplishment. Just because you might get hit with HP doesn't mean you stop working. Add the weight or move to the next class, and keep working! It's all relative. There is no limit to what you can accomplish.

Well said Michael..... (I was thinking the same thing... but you put it into words).

[Bob Pagano]

Nice Michael, Common sense ! But dont think there is any out on the left coast.
Travis, I am sorry I left you off the list of people if put in a room could fix the mess. Please accept my apology.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

x2!

What some people seem to forget is that HP factors are representative of a car's true potential. WELLLL... guess what? If you hit the HP trigger, then you have shown that your combination makes more HP, and it SHOULD be factored appropriately! What's the point in having *any* HP factoring is someone is always going to say "You're punishing me for all my hard work!". I'm sorry, but there is no entitlement. Either your car is factored correctly or its not. If you surpass a certain threshold with all of your "hard work", then you've shown that it is not factored correctly. Just because you get hit with HP and have to carry more weight or run the next faster class does not mean you're being punished. Quite the contrary, it's an outstanding accomplishment. Just because you might get hit with HP doesn't mean you stop working. Add the weight or move to the next class, and keep working! It's all relative. There is no limit to what you can accomplish.

On a separate note, once again, I am shocked by the lack of discussion about reducing the number of classes, whether it be wider weight breaks, sticks n' autos, or what have you -- any of which would generate more heads-up racing (which working in concert with the AHFS would help bring combos into line much quicker). Any so-called "performance guy" against this should be embarrased that it takes a bracket racer to bring it up.

OR, we could just use the 15 years of data that have already been compiled, do simple run completion to make up for the 1000' dumpers, utilize McCarty's bell curve, reset ALL of the classes, indexes, and HP factors ONCE right now, and then everybody could run with no trigger for another 5 years! Bang, we're back to real racing, everybody can do "hard work" on their combination without fear, and everybody can race to the finish line without fear. Or does that make too much sense?

X 2 AND 3. Good post Michael. The fast guys want thier cake and eat it to !

[Chad Rhodes]

two things I think would HELP this some. One would be that any instant hit pass be met with a teardown, two would be to compare an "instant hit" pass with an average of everyone with that combo's fastest passes ( we know Nitro Joe has this info) to see if the combo is really deserving of HP.

1) it would keep an illegal car from killing a combo.

2) it would prevent one maniac from killing an otherwise reasonable combo. My point here is that there are several cases where one person has a combo figured out well beyond any of his competitors. He is the anomaly, and should be awarded for the achievement, but the rest of the guys running the same combo shouldn't be penalized i.e. 427/425, Sorensen is killer fast, at least .10 faster than any other 425 I would say. But there are a slew of good, fast 425's that aren't even in the same realm as him. If you hit the whole combo, Sorensen is still .10 quicker than the other 425's, but they all get penalized with him. I am NOT suggesting penalizing on an individual basis, just suggesting that just because one guy has a combo flying doesn't necessarily mean the combo as a whole is soft.

[B Aceves]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

two things I think would HELP this some. One would be that any instant hit pass be met with a teardown, two would be to compare an "instant hit" pass with an average of everyone with that combo's fastest passes ( we know Nitro Joe has this info) to see if the combo is really deserving of HP.

1) it would keep an illegal car from killing a combo.

2) it would prevent one maniac from killing an otherwise reasonable combo. My point here is that there are several cases where one person has a combo figured out well beyond any of his competitors. He is the anomaly, and should be awarded for the achievement, but the rest of the guys running the same combo shouldn't be penalized i.e. 427/425, Sorensen is killer fast, at least .10 faster than any other 425 I would say. But there are a slew of good, fast 425's that aren't even in the same realm as him. If you hit the whole combo, Sorensen is still .10 quicker than the other 425's, but they all get penalized with him. I am NOT suggesting penalizing on an individual basis, just suggesting that just because one guy has a combo flying doesn't necessarily mean the combo as a whole is soft.

Ha you beat me too it !
ITS Embbarrsing that it takes a Performance Bassed Racer to realize the Big picture now doesnt it. Or maybe a bracket racer also hmm idk. Good post
X2 X3 X4 X5 whatever......

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Chad Rhodes

two things I think would HELP this some. One would be that any instant hit pass be met with a teardown, two would be to compare an "instant hit" pass with an average of everyone with that combo's fastest passes ( we know Nitro Joe has this info) to see if the combo is really deserving of HP.

1) it would keep an illegal car from killing a combo.

2) it would prevent one maniac from killing an otherwise reasonable combo. My point here is that there are several cases where one person has a combo figured out well beyond any of his competitors. He is the anomaly, and should be awarded for the achievement, but the rest of the guys running the same combo shouldn't be penalized i.e. 427/425, Sorensen is killer fast, at least .10 faster than any other 425 I would say. But there are a slew of good, fast 425's that aren't even in the same realm as him. If you hit the whole combo, Sorensen is still .10 quicker than the other 425's, but they all get penalized with him. I am NOT suggesting penalizing on an individual basis, just suggesting that just because one guy has a combo flying doesn't necessarily mean the combo as a whole is soft.

This is a performance based eliminator To many on here want to forget that.

I agree with number one.
But as far as number two goes if someone "legally" finds a way to go faster than the competition. There should be no reason to let the slower guys have a free ride.