I'm confused about IHRA's Sportsman friendliness

[RJ Sledge]

Hey Michael did you not post before about not having the time to race because you were 3 or 4 weeks behind? Go back to work and then enjoy the races, its not worth your time and frustration trying to convince somebody about IHRA. Enjoy yourself life is short.

Later RJ

[tex22]

I have to agree with RJ. Regardless of anyone's attempt to convert someone over to IHRA, there are just racers who stick with NHRA. I personally have no problem with racing in either. Racing is racing and thats what I love to do.Not complain about car counts, HP ratings, or treatment of sportsman vs pros at the track. I however do feel there will be a increase in car counts for IHRA events this year. Good Luck to everyone in 2011.

[JJ3159]

i have run both sides ,winnings from each santioning body spend the same way.ihra is more laid back

[Toby Lang]

Michael,

My initial reply to you was in response to your saying it was ridiculous how they were only in the 3rd round of SG at 4PM. One reason for that is they ran behind schedule on Saturday so they postponed the first round of eliminations for the index classes until Sunday morning.

Using your formula, how long should it take to run 375 cars with each class getting four time runs except for Stock and Super Stock which got three? My rough guess says about 21-22 hours. Probably a lot more when you take into consideration how long it takes to run the Alcohol cars sometimes. For instance, on Sunday DRC posted the first round winners of TS at 12:54 PM. The next class was TAD. Their first round of eliminations was posted at 2:24 PM.

From what I can tell on DRC, they completed the race in about 27 hours. That isn't too bad, is it? Also, the more cars you have the more likely it is that you will run behind schedule, right?

I haven't been to too many NHRA races that weren't running behind schedule. Like I said before, if you plan on running NHRA, running behind schedule is par for the course.


-Toby

[Hagen Gary]

I guess it’s my fault for bringing this subject up under IHRA. You loyalist are so amped up to protect IHRA, that you confuse the issue. I just thought it might be an interesting point to bring up about how unfair the payout structure is at what is suppose to be a National Event. Like I said before, I expect my friends to be fair to me. This S#!t ain't fair no matter how you slice it. I said alot of things in this thread that apparently some people have a hard time comprehending, cuz they keep on making ignorant comments like "go build a T/S car." How is that constructive?

Its the Legendary Hagen Gary! He talks ****, hates IHRA and complains about everything. I think if you looked into me (I use my real name) you would know that’s not the case. God forbid I bring up one thing I feel is unfair to every S/SS and .90 car. Some dude is going to sit on his computer and judge my intentions when he aint got a clue who I am, or how much I have supported IHRA. It’s not about the money, It’s about the morality of two classes taking home 3 times as much as any comparable class.

Do you think I would come on this forum and air this out if I didn't have firsthand knowledge of Scooter hearing this very argument over a year ago? I guess so, cuz its on classracer with all the keyboard racers. He provided the same reasoning I have heard here. He needs more cars. Well, they aint coming with this payout a year and a half later.

Next time I'll name the thread "The evil NHRA policies spill over to poor ole IHRA" I might get some support on pure emotion. I believe that if you offer more money to be won, you will get people to tow from further away, which will lead to more cars. I'm not saying do it for divisional races, But this thread is about the payout for The Mardi Gras National! Fairness People, that’s all I'm asking. I'll park way in the back and let a T/S car have his 40ft of asphalt for a car whose doors come off. But this payout structure is out of control. It caters to two classes leaving the rest of us showing up because its in the neighborhood. IHRA is doing exactly opposite of what I think they should do to attract more cars from NHRA at a time that’s right for the picking. Offer more money! If you build it, they will come. How is everyone so excited about all of the combo races when they don't even have the tech that IHRA has? Its because of the money goof ball.

[Jim Woods]

Do your homework before you say things you dont know about. The southern s/ss combo races do have the same tech as ihra.

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Jim Woods

Do your homework before you say things you dont know about. The southern s/ss combo races do have the same tech as ihra.

It is because the T/S and T/D cars have become the "Prima Donas" of IHRA and as you will see....in the NHRA also. They are eaiser to tech and they dont require keeping track of HP factors and engine specs. They dont require an engine tear down. They take away track time from the Comp., Stock, and S/S cars at the points races and opens. They get the best parking, the better payouts, get to tow to the staging lanes so they THINK they are pros and they are nothing more than over priced bracket cars. To bad the spectators like them for the speeds and quick ET's. At some point in time stock and S/S WILL be replaced by cars such as these....like it or not. Why these guys build $150,000 + cars to run for 10 cents in "yang" money is a wonder to me. They could build 2 or 3 stockers for that kind of money. I guess they just dont understand working within a set of restrictive rules for performance and they use a friggin' delay box on top of it all. Bracket 1 cars pure and simple. At least the stock and super stock guys run for records, and have heads up runs on occasion. Flame on !

[borninamopar]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Could they do it with 400? Certainly not. However, 375 - Unleashed (47) - Comp (12) - Top Alky (11) = 305... a far cry from 400.

We average 52 seconds per pair, including downtime. 2 time trials, plus 10 min of cooldown time between each of the last 3 rounds (EVERY class, so we're building in and accounting for an EXTRA 3-1/2 hrs of downtime for cooldown, etc.)
S/ST 44 1hr 48m
S/G 57 2hr 12m
S/C 72 2hr 37m
SS 33 1hr 32m
Stk 43 1hr 48m
TS 23 1hr 12m
TD 32 1hr 25m
--------------------
13 hours

Long day? Yep, but they absolutely could do it. As a matter of fact, they have. Carolina Dragway 2007, 286 cars, Race #1 done in 12hrs (including Jet cars, wheelstanders and other 'show' stuff they booked in), Race #2 (1 time trial) done in 7hrs 45min. (I think 2006 was bigger, but can't find stats) And given *3* days, it not only could be done, but done comfortably.

I announced at the Div. 2 Bracket Finals last year... 400 cars. We ran 5 races in 5 days.

Like Myron said, why doesn't everyone just flood the IHRA events and show them how they "can't" do it. LOL (Please, nobody mention the 2009 World Finals!)

Come to Capital City Dragway Friday and see how many cars go down the track, over three days. I don't think they ever hurt for car count.

[borninamopar]

Originally Posted by Hagen Gary

Dude, Your compleatly wrong on this. A simple search of RacingJunk would easily prove that. T/S cost more, sure. But the FACT is, No matter how many cars show up in both classes, T/S will take home 3 times as much money as ANY other class. Thats 300%. Do you get that? Are you really that much better than us? The separation between SS and SST aint even close to 300%. I bet you can get way more runs out of a similarly built T/S motor than a SS. Don't act like a T/S car comes close to a compairable TAFC in operation cost. If you think that most SS cars have less than 50K in them, then allow me to think of most T/S cars as S/G's with the trottle stop off (cuz thats what would qualify at Palm beach, and is going to qualify at BR). The separation in building and opperating cost aint even close to 300%. Don't even get me started on what type of car can claim more contingencies. Its illegal in S/SS to run half the list.

I'll be at BR and from what I see, you will too. So, you know my name. Come get me and we will take the qualifing sheet from T/S and SS, ride around, drink a beer, and maybee we will both do a little self educating on how much it really cost to qualify up top and on the bottom of both classes.

Gary, we have well over, well over, hell way over 50K in our car. Hell you might be able to get the motor for that years ago. Throw in the chassis, body suspension etc....Damn right we expect to make some good money for going 200 mph , maybe, if it hooks and don't shake or throw you towards the wall at over 180mph. And we only do it when we can afford to run it. And usually at select races and outlaw events. Hell I even run it out down that sh*tty track at Hattiesburg almost every chance I can. I know its not your style but hope you can make the Mardi Gras race at the hub this year.

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Toby Lang

Using your formula, how long should it take to run 375 cars with each class getting four time runs except for Stock and Super Stock which got three? My rough guess says about 21-22 hours.

Looks about right.

From what I can tell on DRC, they completed the race in about 27 hours. That isn't too bad, is it? Also, the more cars you have the more likely it is that you will run behind schedule, right?

"Schedule" would imply planning on eventualities, IMO.
Losing an unexpected 6 hours is bad, yes. That's the better part of a day. I guess my ire is more the result of what they set themselves up for, not as much for how they dealt with the hand they dealt themselves.
We've get several issues here:
- Four qualifying runs? It's a race. Three time shots is nice. Four is unnecessary, IMO. Six is ridiculous (Atlanta)
- Additional classes (Unleashed) brought in to bolster the car count. The additional cars have forced the event to go to 3 days when it could be done in 2, which costs an additional day of expenses (track, crew, insurance, etc.)
- Alky cars. Numerous issues here, from unnecessarily burdensome run time to lack of promotion. (ie., if you're going to have them there, PROMOTE them, put fans in the stands, and pay the classes accordingly. If you're not going to do jack with them, don't expect jack from them.

I believe the outlying Divisions could do their events in 2 days (Sat-Sun), with Friday as Parking/Tech/Test n' Tune. The traditionally high car count venues, including Div. 1 & 3 could maintain 3 days.

He needs more cars. Well, they aint coming with this payout a year and a half later.

...an issue that I'm sure they will have to come to terms with and adjust accordingly. So, if money's not the answer for them, it's got to be kind of scary to put your financial butt on the line for other classes.

Fairness People, that’s all I'm asking.

I don't think you hate IHRA, and I know you've been out there supporting them (and winning) for many many years. We just have different ways of looking at things and can agree to disagree. I feel that the S/SS purses, given all of the associated variables, is a valid one. To me, it doesn't matter what any other class is or isn't getting paid, because I don't run them.

Offer more money! If you build it, they will come.

Again, please offer your proposed entry fee and payout, projected car counts and bottom line so that we can present the proposal to the powers that be. (I'm serious. Not being a smart*$$. Let's work through it and try to create a real solution.) I'm sure if you can generate a program that works for both racers and the promoters, they'll happily latch onto it. I have a race purse calculator spreadsheet if it would be of assistance.

So, who's going to the MIR and VMP races for $5K/Win + nat'l event contingency? I'll be at both.