Another low car count?

[THE LEGEND]

Jeff,
When I started back running IHRA in 2002 it was in a crate motor stocker.
Chip

[art leong]

Originally Posted by Marvin Robinson

The cost is not an absolute... or course you can build a 10K stocker... it will either be slow, or uncompetitive. I know there is much science & sophistication in the .90 cars, but getting what you need to do what you want to do is accessible and relatively cheap compared to a lot of what you need to do with S/SS stuff, especially if you are not racing a SM/BB Chevy (or one of the other 3 or 4 mainstream combos). I'm not knocking Chevys, I'm actually a diehard Chevy fan, always had them, owned/raced at least 11 of them. (If I had my ideal Stocker, it would be a 69 396/375 Chevelle) But having built/raced bracket cars for 30 years, the cost for finding performance/consistency compared to S/SS is startling.... I know a 10K ST/SG car is not going to be state of the art, but at least you could be competitive if you're smart about your combo. No dice in Stock. (SG/SC is expensive, period, just due to how fast you have to go... we all know speed costs money, just the same speed costs a lot more in S/SS.

Marv you are not correct. The car you picked has been beat to death by the racers, You have to keep up with the jones's. $5,000 cyl heads etc.
If you choose a soft factor, less popular class. It does not cost near as much as you think.
I have less than $20,000 in my superstocker, (you can have it for $15,000) and "Trust Me" I can run with the CJ's
If you read the rules and the guides you can run fast without spending a lot of money.
How much do you think Bob Shaw has in his rides?

[Marvin Robinson]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I'm saying there is a desire for racers to participate on the national event level. Prestige, ego, money. If there were no other way to race such a venue without having a pro class car, you would see more entry level stockers.
However, I know NHRA would never drop the super classes so it's a moot point.

Question: Did IHRA find that crate motor stock brought new blood into S/SS? I'm wondering if the statistics show an increase in car counts for Stock. Do the participants generally favor it?

Jeff, I think you have hit on a key point here... the S/SS fields were HUGE in the days before there were so many index classes. Super gas was a nice addition in the beginning, when most were door cars, then everyone figured out the liteweight/cheap way to go fast with the dragsters/roadsters, leading up to S/C. Indexes gave bracket racers an entry into National level competition, and it was a lot easier to tread those waters than the tech challenge of S/SS. We lost a lot of potential racers to that direction... I think a good solution would be to have a separate series for the index cars, and have them run on different dates. The mentality from brackets to Class racing is totally different, and having therm run on different weekends might be good for all. (No bias here, I've done both, but from the mentality standpoint, the mindset of the S/SS/Comp guys are closer to the pros approach, and the index cars are a different alignment altogether). Who knows?? Having the Pros/S/SS/Comp guys together, and the Alcohol, TS/SC/SG/SST and Pro Mods together might be good for us, spectators and NHRA.

[THE LEGEND]

It goes back to crossing over.
I have a dragster I can run SC,TD,QR,and brackets.
I have a 68 camaro I can run SG,SST,SR,HR, and bracket race.

When I had my last stocker I could race stock and bracket that was it.

Don't take this the wrong way I love S/SS, It's all I ever wanted to do but for me now .90 and brackets make more sense.
Chip Johnson

[X-TECH MAN]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

I'm saying there is a desire for racers to participate on the national event level. Prestige, ego, money. If there were no other way to race such a venue without having a pro class car, you would see more entry level stockers.
However, I know NHRA would never drop the super classes so it's a moot point.

Question: Did IHRA find that crate motor stock brought new blood into S/SS? I'm wondering if the statistics show an increase in car counts for Stock. Do the participants generally favor it?

Jeff.....Several years ago (more than 15) IHRA was going to drop stock all together or combine them into S/S. The car count was 8 to 12 cars when no NHRA race was going on within around 500 miles. The S/S count was higher then with close to 100 cars at every event. I fought against it HARD then I develoed the dreaded (to NHRA racers) stock "Crate" motor classes and after about 6 months the stocker count took off after management decided to try it. IHRA began to have 60 to 80+ stocker car counts and several NHRA guys stated to run with IHRA also as the sponsor money went up. IHRA had class run offs then also with the high car counts. It was a much less expensive way to race in the beginning. Parts were easy to come by and we had something to compare heads, etc. to in tear down. As time went on they turned into NHRA style cars with the expensive mods allowed today in NHRA stockers. Bogus cylinder heads, lite trans components, shubeck style lifters with crazy spring pressures, 8000+ RPM shift points, and all the other tricks in the book that guys are doing today. Until I quit approx. 10 years ago I kept a handle on it but now its just as expensive to build and maintain a crate engined class car as it is an NHRA stocker and the car counts had dropped due to the economy, lack of pay outs, and the lack of tear downs by competent tech people. I dont blame the good tech guys that IHRA has left (not many) but the time schedule of their races dosent allow for much in the tear down inspection dept. I can see it happenng to the NHRA even though those with more money than sense continue to play the game. Its only a matter of time before it fails and car counts all drasticly in NHRA to. The "rules creap" has caused a lot of it. It has almost changed my mind about running a stocker again and the cost of gas and diesel hasnt helped either.

[Michael Beard]

I know a 10K ST/SG car is not going to be state of the art, but at least you could be competitive if you're smart about your combo. No dice in Stock.

You can have my DF/S '85 Turismo 2.2L for $10K right this instant. Won Saturday, was R/U on Sunday, and won two events last year running a limited schedule. I take PayPal.

[danny waters sr]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

You can have my DF/S '85 Turismo 2.2L for $10K right this instant. Won Saturday, was R/U on Sunday, and won two events last year running a limited schedule. I take PayPal.

Only thing is you gonna have to deal with a tire shortage (no pun intended) "NOTTT"
Just funnin Michael, if jr buys mine i may buy yours .....

[art leong]

Originally Posted by danny waters sr

Only thing is you gonna have to deal with a tire shortage (no pun intended) "NOTTT"
Just funnin Michael, if jr buys mine i may buy yours .....

I haven't got to that point yet but I think as long as you can use a 13" wheel You can get 20" tall tires.

Michael take a look at these wheels. In the 13" size they aren't that heavy

http://www.diamondracingwheels.com/ministock.html

[Rich67stang]

I know alot of racers in both sanctions that just do not race classes anymore, everyone has there personal reasons. I am sure if every racer tried to get just one additional racer
to enter these events the car counts would be up significantly. I am running s/c and ss/modified, and I can tell you I could have bought 2 tk dragsters for what is in the ss motor, but thats just me. I do miss alot of the racers and big parties @ the races.

[Greg Hill]

Originally Posted by Bobby Zlatkin

Greg Hill, you know that old expression "cut off your nose to spite your face"? Your strategy may just play right into their hands.

'Staying home in protest' might actually backfire on you. When you do decide to go back, you may find that there is no place to go.

At that point, we may all be converting our cars into 10, 11, & 12 sec. cars.

Not saying this in disrespect, but just trying to look at the big picture.

Bobby,I don't spend my money with people who treat me the way NHRA does. If what we have now is all there is I really don't care if they are around or not. I will not go back to National events until there are some big changes at NHRA. I am having a good time racing our local combo races and will race a couple of NHRA points races and opens and quite a bit more IHRA than I have in the past. In my view the big picture is that unless there is a fundamental shift in the way NHRA does business I don't think they will be around and it will have very little to do with what stock and super stock racers do.