How does a 428W crate motor run regular SS?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by cutta

I don't think racers should expect for race ready cars like the CJ's and DP's to be street available cars. The times we live in will not allow for cars such as the "Thunderbolt or Hemi Darts/Cudas" to be manufactured as street available cars or in high production numbers in my opinion.

The cars you speak of were put in Super stock, not Stock Eliminator. You've illustrated perfectly the point I've been making for about 3 years now. Thanks. The basic premise of Stock Eliminator is, or actually, was, that the cars legal for the class were originally street legal production cars. That was the entire point of the class, NOT having one off trick purpose built race cars in the class. That's why they put those Hemi Darts and Cudas in Super Stock from day one, and why the rest of these factory race cars belong in Super Stock.

And in allowing those cars in Stock Eliminator, NHRA has completely changed the character and premise of the class, and effectively rendered everything else obsolete. Now they can and will allow any manufacturer that they want to add a new paper combination whenever they want. Because they do not have to produce the cars anymore, they just have to add paper to a catalog. They can create, on paper, a new combination any time they want. It's a completely unsustainable business model that is directly contrary to the best interests of the class.

[novassdude]

Exactly they are making some great cars. Just put them in the guide just like before and let people build them if they want. If they want to make light weight versions put them in Superstock just like was done before.

[cutta]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

The cars you speak of were put in Super stock, not Stock Eliminator. You've illustrated perfectly the point I've been making for about 3 years now. Thanks. The basic premise of Stock Eliminator is, or actually, was, that the cars legal for the class were originally street legal production cars. That was the entire point of the class, NOT having one off trick purpose built race cars in the class. That's why they put those Hemi Darts and Cudas in Super Stock from day one, and why the rest of these factory race cars belong in Super Stock.

And in allowing those cars in Stock Eliminator, NHRA has completely changed the character and premise of the class, and effectively rendered everything else obsolete. Now they can and will allow any manufacturer that they want to add a new paper combination whenever they want. Because they do not have to produce the cars anymore, they just have to add paper to a catalog. They can create, on paper, a new combination any time they want. It's a completely unsustainable business model that is directly contrary to the best interests of the class.

Point taken and understood. My understanding of the class was a little different.

[Phillip marvetz]

Let's not forget that if you walk into a dealership and buy and new street legal Mustang or Challenger you wont be able to race it in stock. CJ's and DP's only, How does this help the factory's sell more car's?....................


NHRA, Put the real car's in guides with real HP factors.

[goinbroke2]

Originally Posted by Phillip marvetz

Let's not forget that if you walk into a dealership and buy and new street legal Mustang or Challenger you wont be able to race it in stock. CJ's and DP's only, How does this help the factory's sell more car's?....................


NHRA, Put the real car's in guides with real HP factors.

EXACTLY!!
Why is NHRA allowing this??? MONEY!

Don't hate the playa, hate the game...or whatever that saying is. If GM shows up with a papercar, some would be happy and figure now their favourite can compete with "them".
The problem is, NONE should be allowed to do this. I certainly wouldn't condemn GM for doing it though, they are just getting the best ROI that THEY can like any other business.

[Patrick Downing]

I am not here to try and rub anyone the wrong way but, If you really think ford is pumping NHRA up with a bunch of money to make these cars dominate in Stk and SS then I have some swamp, uh I mean prime lake front property to sell to you. Ford Corporate does not give a **** if they dominate they care about all the amount of advertisement they get. That is why they are the official vehicle of NHRA. Ford Racing tells the people that talk to NHRA what the HP ratings should be then NHRA puts them in the book. This has been argued about for over a year, and it always just fizzles out and dies without anyone doing anything about it. If everyone that gets on here and bitches spent their time writing letters to NHRA and being proactive then maybe something would change, and if it didn't at least you could say you tried. To me it just seems that ya'll need something to complain about and if these cars weren't around it would be something else.

[RULER]

If you think there have not been letters sent to NHRA about these new cars, then you have been living under a rock, the point was made perfectly they don't belong in stock, these cars should be in super/stock. There not production cars!!!!!! Next time push your rock aside and pay attention.

[novassdude]

I did question them on how the 4.6L 3V got the HP rating it did. This is the response I got from Bruce.


Let me give you some info on the Ford 281 CID 4.6L 3 valve engine as it relates to the NHRA. NHRA Stock eliminator racers are Limited to Model,engine combinations that are accepted/approved by the Technical Services Dept. This is done via an extensive

TI ( Techincal Information ) form. That is each engine component is evaluated and approved.

Ford 2008 4.6L engines approved for use in the Cobra Jets.

300/281 CJ coupe

325/281 CJ Bullitt

430/281 CJ Roush Stage 3 coupe

510/281 CJ P51 coupe



All of these engnes are pretty much the same: IE 2@57 MM throttle body,dish piston, 2@1.340 and 1@ 1.500 valves,

Same cylinder head # RF3L3E-6040 K.

Ford 2010 4.6L engine approved for use in the Cobra Jet.

235/281 CJ coupe. Same engine except throttle body. 2@62.5MM.

None of the above combinations have been or are currently being used in Stock Eliminator.

Ford has no plans to submit any combination for the 2011 season.

There will be Cobra Jets in 2012, but no 4.6L engines only the 330 and 302.



Bruce Bachelder

The answer I got makes no sense to me Basically he says it is the same as the 300hp version with bigger throttle bodys. Yet it is 65 hp less.
I sent a follow up asking how it could be less with the bigger throttle body but as of yet I did not get a responce to that question.
He has been very prompt in answering question.

[BlueOval Ralph]

Danny has given him a answer therfre he can not speak, don't forget he's Danny's Parriot (Poly want a cracker)

Originally Posted by novassdude

I did question them on how the 4.6L 3V got the HP rating it did. This is the response I got from Bruce.


Let me give you some info on the Ford 281 CID 4.6L 3 valve engine as it relates to the NHRA. NHRA Stock eliminator racers are Limited to Model,engine combinations that are accepted/approved by the Technical Services Dept. This is done via an extensive

TI ( Techincal Information ) form. That is each engine component is evaluated and approved.

Ford 2008 4.6L engines approved for use in the Cobra Jets.

300/281 CJ coupe

325/281 CJ Bullitt

430/281 CJ Roush Stage 3 coupe

510/281 CJ P51 coupe



All of these engnes are pretty much the same: IE 2@57 MM throttle body,dish piston, 2@1.340 and 1@ 1.500 valves,

Same cylinder head # RF3L3E-6040 K.

Ford 2010 4.6L engine approved for use in the Cobra Jet.

235/281 CJ coupe. Same engine except throttle body. 2@62.5MM.

None of the above combinations have been or are currently being used in Stock Eliminator.

Ford has no plans to submit any combination for the 2011 season.

There will be Cobra Jets in 2012, but no 4.6L engines only the 330 and 302.



Bruce Bachelder

The answer I got makes no sense to me Basically he says it is the same as the 300hp version with bigger throttle bodys. Yet it is 65 hp less.
I sent a follow up asking how it could be less with the bigger throttle body but as of yet I did not get a responce to that question.
He has been very prompt in answering question.

[Chad Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Patrick Downing

I am not here to try and rub anyone the wrong way but, If you really think ford is pumping NHRA up with a bunch of money to make these cars dominate in Stk and SS then I have some swamp, uh I mean prime lake front property to sell to you. Ford Corporate does not give a **** if they dominate they care about all the amount of advertisement they get. That is why they are the official vehicle of NHRA. Ford Racing tells the people that talk to NHRA what the HP ratings should be then NHRA puts them in the book. This has been argued about for over a year, and it always just fizzles out and dies without anyone doing anything about it. If everyone that gets on here and bitches spent their time writing letters to NHRA and being proactive then maybe something would change, and if it didn't at least you could say you tried. To me it just seems that ya'll need something to complain about and if these cars weren't around it would be something else.

You're as lost as last year's Easter Eggs huh?