worst red light debate, again!

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

So Bill...once you get this rule to your liking, will you race a S/SS car? Is this what it takes for you to race?
What will you build or buy?

I am too old and infirm to take the beating that campaigning an NHRA Stocker would provide me, given all the travel involved, to say nothing of the travel expense, BUT that is surely what I'd do if I had the physical wherewithall to get it done right, because that's where my heart is.

Instead, I have a Bracket car that I race at a local track (when I have the time, and am able), a Vortech, low boost... 10 psi) 360 Magnum-powered '72 Valiant 4-door that goes mid elevens @118 mph, and am partners in a new, experimental slant six-powered 1964 Valiant that will be a high-boost (30+ pounds) turbocharged car that is stilll being put together at my racing partner's garage. It's (as well as my other, supercharged car) run under the same starting-line protocol as a Stocker would, so I am subject to a first red light rule, just like everybody else, until it is changed (if it ever is.... doubtful.) Here are some pix of these cars and their engines, That's me in the white coat...

Thanks for your interest!

[Ed Fernandez]

You and everybody else who has read through this looooong and drawn out subject know my thoughts on this subject.What annoys me the most is that if the rule is changed in S/SS racing it doesn't affect you at all.If you want this rule changed for something that directly affects you then go on all the bracket racing sites and go to the top of the mountain and rage for all you're worth.
I don't go on NASCAR sites and tell them I think having foreign car makes in NASCAR bites.Because it does.It's their deal and they do what they want.
And besides who gives a flying flock what I have to say?

[John Kelley]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

And besides who gives a flying flock what I have to say?

:-)
Handicap drag racing is handicap drag racing.......
:-)

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Ed Fernandez

You and everybody else who has read through this looooong and drawn out subject know my thoughts on this subject.What annoys me the most is that if the rule is changed in S/SS racing it doesn't affect you at all.If you want this rule changed for something that directly affects you then go on all the bracket racing sites and go to the top of the mountain and rage for all you're worth.
I don't go on NASCAR sites and tell them I think having foreign car makes in NASCAR bites.Because it does.It's their deal and they do what they want.
And besides who gives a flying flock what I have to say?

Ed wrote: "What annoys me the most is that if the rule is changed in S/SS racing it doesn't affect you at all."

It affects me in exactly the same way it affects you.
IT AFFECTS ME IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY IT AFFECTS YOU!!!

When I am the first to leave at ANY Bracket race I attend with either car I take to the strip, wheen I am the first to leave, if I red light, the car in the other lane NEVER has his chance to red light.

Read that again.

That is 100-percent correct,

Now, tell me how the firat red light rule under which YOU race, doesn't afftect me, in exactly the same way.

PLEASE, tell me.

When you write things like that, it's obvious to me that you have, in spite of ALL THIS VERBIAGE, ~NO~ conception of how this works.

One more time; tell me how I don't get screwed the very same way that YOU do, when you're the first to leave, and you red light, handing the win to the other car, with him never getting HIS chance to red light..

Unequal treatment for the two cars.... and it's universal in handicap racing, NHRA Stock, Super Stock, Comp and generic Bracket racing, and it's the same for everybody.

So, you could imagine my befuddlement, when you wrote, "What annoys me the most is that if the rule is changed in S/SS racing it doesn't affect you at all." Oh yes, Ed, it affects me in PRECICELY the same way it affects you (and everybody else who is handicap racing.) If it didn't, I surely wouldn't be on this BB writing all these impaassioned pleas for something that wouldn't affect ME.
Believe it...

Still shaking my head....

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by bill dedman

Ed wrote: "What annoys me the most is that if the rule is changed in S/SS racing it doesn't affect you at all."

It affects me in exactly the same way it affects you.
IT AFFECTS ME IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY IT AFFECTS YOU!!!



So, you could imagine my befuddlement, when you wrote, "What annoys me the most is that if the rule is changed in S/SS racing it doesn't affect you at all."
Still shaking my head....

WRONG. And it is YOU that does not get it. YOU do not RACE in Stock Eliminator, nor in Super Stock. YOU do not drive a car, YOU do not own a car, YOU do not crew a car, you do not build or work on cars, in either class. Therefore, and to wit, rules in Stock Eliminator and Super Stock DO NOT EFFECT YOU.

Yes Bill, it really is THAT SIMPLE. And yet, you insist on trying to ram a rule change down the throats of racers you do not race with.

Ever wonder why you annoy others so much? You have your nose in their business, trying to make changes that DO NOT EFFECT YOU, to classes they race in and you do not.

It has been suggested to you dozens, maybe hundreds of times, that you propose your rule change as a racer, in your classes, at your track. But you steadfastly refuse to do so, you insist on constantly demanding that racers in other classes embrace your desire for a rule change in classes you have no actual vested interest in. You admit you're not going to race in Stock Eliminator or Super Stock, and yet you demand and insist that the rule be changed to suit you.

I may bracket race some, as a diversion, as part of a test and tune session, or something of that nature. But the one thing I will refuse to do is to demand that bracket racers change a rule to suit me. I won't even go on their section of the boards and talk about their rules, as their rules are no business of mine. And even if I do choose to bracket race at times, I do so under their rules, with the understanding that it is their world, and I'm just visiting.

No, Bill, Ed gets it, you do not. Ed is not demanding a rule change at all, never mind demanding a rule change in a class he has zero intentions of racing in. Think about it. Spend as much time and effort obsessing over that concept as you do the red light rule. One day, even you might get it, you might grasp the concept. I won't hold my breath waiting.

[7423]

Amen..........

[SStockDart]

Double Amen. Well stated Alan.

[Mike Carr]

Alan, if we ever meet, you have a case of beer (or beverage of your choice) on me.

[Mark Yacavone]

Alan (AA/SA),

Bill has told us many times , he's a former Stock racer, tech guy, and long time fan of S/SS racing.

As you know, Alan (AA/SA) , this is the section of this forum where the fans get to post their opinions. I'm sure you knew that.

Also, Alan (AA/SA) , you know that changes such as this proposal, start out at the NHRA Nat'l event tracks, then filter down to the Divs. and Open facilities, not the other way around.

Alan (AA/SA) , I always look forward to your insightful posts, and I appreciate the help you've given me over the years ....... But take this from a guy who doesn't really care whether they change this or not, your last post on this topic sounded like >>>"KILL THE MESSENGER" to me.....But you knew that too, didn't you, Alan..........(AA/SA)

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

WRONG. And it is YOU that does not get it. YOU do not RACE in Stock Eliminator, nor in Super Stock. YOU do not drive a car, YOU do not own a car, YOU do not crew a car, you do not build or work on cars, in either class. Therefore, and to wit, rules in Stock Eliminator and Super Stock DO NOT EFFECT YOU.

Yes Bill, it really is THAT SIMPLE. And yet, you insist on trying to ram a rule change down the throats of racers you do not race with.

Ever wonder why you annoy others so much? You have your nose in their business, trying to make changes that DO NOT EFFECT YOU, to classes they race in and you do not.

It has been suggested to you dozens, maybe hundreds of times, that you propose your rule change as a racer, in your classes, at your track. But you steadfastly refuse to do so, you insist on constantly demanding that racers in other classes embrace your desire for a rule change in classes you have no actual vested interest in. You admit you're not going to race in Stock Eliminator or Super Stock, and yet you demand and insist that the rule be changed to suit you.

I may bracket race some, as a diversion, as part of a test and tune session, or something of that nature. But the one thing I will refuse to do is to demand that bracket racers change a rule to suit me. I won't even go on their section of the boards and talk about their rules, as their rules are no business of mine. And even if I do choose to bracket race at times, I do so under their rules, with the understanding that it is their world, and I'm just visiting.

No, Bill, Ed gets it, you do not. Ed is not demanding a rule change at all, never mind demanding a rule change in a class he has zero intentions of racing in. Think about it. Spend as much time and effort obsessing over that concept as you do the red light rule. One day, even you might get it, you might grasp the concept. I won't hold my breath waiting.

Thank you Alan for explaining this so even a caveman can understand it.I think that all points racers in S/SS should have to forfeit 10 points per race because they are so much better than the rest of us and our self esteem is being damaged.Why shouldn't we be able to win races and make more money just because we aren't good enough to do it on our own talent.