worst red light debate, again!

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lee

Glad I brought that up!
Now we all know, your wallet, your head nor your heart has any involvement in Class Racing. Didn't your parents ever tell you "butt out, stay out of other peoples business!" I can't imagine being one of your neighbors, do you work at changing the way they run their families also?
Just like Allen stated, go to the appropriate message board and plead your case there.
I haven't counted (because I do have better things to do) but I'd say after all this you have what, 6 people on board with your plan? I have to think you should have one nasty headache after beating your head against the wall so long.

Jeff ,I think there's a lot more than six, including a few Top Ten racers

Oh, and it's A-L-A-N (AA/SA)

[Alan Roehrich]

Mark, we also run A/SA, SS/EA, and I may drive in B/SA or C/SA some this year.

Yes, I did campaign for AA/SA. And we do run the class.

I also drove in G/S. And I did redlight first, more than once. It was MY redlight, I did it, and I lost. The system didn't rip me off, the rules didn't beat me, I let the clutch fly early. Entirely MY FAULT.

It's a rule that has been the way it is for decades, it hasn't hindered the growth of the sport. It's a minor annoyance, at the most. Worrying about that rule is about the same as putting a band aid on a cut on the finger of a patient while he dies of an untreated sucking chest wound.

[james schaechter]

As a person that has lost many many times being chased and chasing, I can tell you that this topic does not keep me up at night.

I would suggest that if there are a few on here that really want to try it out, try sponsoring a combo race with the propsed rule change in effect! Maybe kick in 500 or a thou to help prime the pump.

Advertise the rules up front. Then you might find out how it "rolls".

When I first started announcing, the girls in the tower and the announcer had to do quick math to figure the winner. It could be done.

Of course, it is a lot harder to actually get off your arse and do something compared to posting an idea and hoping it goes viral.

Put your time and money where your mouth is.

I mean, I would be racing pro stock now if it wasn't for the whole time and money thing........

[John Lang]

Alan is right, and thats the end this foolishness ! I'm right too like Alan and the rest that agree with Alan !.....John

[Toby Lang]

So, what's the criteria to be able to post on this issue? Looks to me like a lot of people posting on this haven't even raced S/SS in the last two plus years. If you crew on a S/SS car is that good enough? What if somebody knows someone who crews on a S/SS car is that good enough? What if somebody painted a S/SS car is that good enough?

If Bill has raced in S/SS before then I think he has just as much right to post on this issue as a lot of you do.


-Toby

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by Toby Lang

So, what's the criteria to be able to post on this issue? Looks to me like a lot of people posting on this haven't even raced S/SS in the last two plus years. If you crew on a S/SS car is that good enough? What if somebody knows someone who crews on a S/SS car is that good enough? What if somebody painted a S/SS car is that good enough?

If Bill has raced in S/SS before then I think he has just as much right to post on this issue as a lot of you do.


-Toby

That's right, Toby, the car I was racing was sold in early 2009. So I didn't race in 2009 or 2010, and haven't driven yet, this year. I am however a current participant on a couple of levels, I'm not whining about how I can't race, and I'm working on getting back in.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Toby Lang

So, what's the criteria to be able to post on this issue? Looks to me like a lot of people posting on this haven't even raced S/SS in the last two plus years. If you crew on a S/SS car is that good enough? What if somebody knows someone who crews on a S/SS car is that good enough? What if somebody painted a S/SS car is that good enough?

If Bill has raced in S/SS before then I think he has just as much right to post on this issue as a lot of you do.


-Toby

x2

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich

I also drove in G/S. And I did redlight first, more than once. It was MY redlight, I did it, and I lost.

It's a rule that has been the way it is for decades, it hasn't hindered the growth of the sport. It's a minor annoyance, at the most. .

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++


You lost BECAUSE you had a chance to red light, and you did,

When did your opponent have HIS chance to red light??? Oh... he didn't.

Answer the question and you'll have the answer to what is unfair about this system.

The second car has the advantage of NO REDLIGHT JEOPARDY if the first car bulbs. Nobody can deny that, and as small an advantage as you seem to think it is, in the final analysis, it IS an advantage. Pretty much everyone seems to agree on that.

(It could easily happen in the final round for the Eliminator money, at Indy.)


Now, tell me the justification for that advantage. What is it about that unfair rule that appeals to you. I won't even suggest that it's because, as the sometimes pilot of a AA/SA car, it would benefit you a great majority of the time....

When the Christmas tree was in its infancy (1963-'64), there was no software to deal with a worse red light program, but thanks to progress in things digital, that is no longer true. It's fixable, now....

I'm sure that paying for the software to implement the change, wouldn't put much of a dent in NHRA's annual budget, which includes about a million dollars in salary for the top two honchos, but they'd probably choke on it, anway.

And, for that reason, alone, it will probably never happen.

On a couple of issues you raised, yes, I ran a class-legal Stocker, a 220 hp 283 Chevy 1957 sedan delivery for about 5 years (1966-1971), part of the time, with a partner (Div. V racer, Harry Sparks.) Harry still races in Stock Eliminator.

Here's a picture of the car in question. (see below.)

You seem upset that I don't CURRENTLY run a Stock-Super/Stock car.

In my defense, I would say this: This rule (the first red light rule) is universally enforced in both Class racing and in Bracket racing. My Bracket cars are subject to its B.S., just as if I were running Class-legal racing with them.

Ed doesn't seem to get that.

Does that give me the right to post on here (Class Racer) about my opinions regarding this antiquated anomaly????

The Moderator, Ken Miele, has created this BB for people who don't currently race. He has NEVER said, "Well, if you're not currently running a Class-Legal car, then your subject matter is limited to subjects that don't apply to those cars." For current racers, with a Permanent number, there's a separate BB.

So, there's only THIS to consider: The ethics of posting subject matter that is pertinent to what you DON'T race, and the ethics of doing so, as regards how it may have "unintended consequences."

This red light business is a fairness issue (obviously) and what is fair in Brackets as far as starting line protocol/rules is concerned, is fair for both Brackets and Class racing.

If you don't see it as an "ethics" issue, then you have no concept of fairness in racing, and it's not surprising that you are not disturbed by the lack of a level playing field that the "First red light" rule brings to the starting line.

IF it can be made more fair, with a reasonable amount of effort, I think there's no reason not to do it.

Who will be harmed by this change.? I can't think of a soul, except maybe the very top class car that will never leave first. Can you? Oh... I forgot; you're a sometimes AA/SA racer...

[Alan Roehrich]

It's so unfair it's killed drag racing, and people have been quitting over that one rule for decades. It's so important that the very life of drag racing depends on that, and that alone.



It wouldn't make a difference to me, no matter what I drive, although I do have some things in the works for an A/SA car.

I've raced under the same rules for about 3 decades, give or take, and it seems like a reasonable balance to me, even when I go red first, but the other guy is more red than I am.

If I go red, I go red, if I do it first, shame on me, even if the other guy was worse. I don't care, I blame every loss on the guy I look at in the mirror when I brush my teeth. If I lost, I didn't do everything better than the guy in the other lane, or at least I didn't do enough things better than he did.

[Ed Wright]

Your wasting your time Alan. This gets him attention he would not get otherwise.