Where are the lower class cars?

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Michael - Regulations ? I don't see it .

Two easy examples: The elimination of deep staging and the consolidation of FWD classes.

(Unrelated) Do you still have your Ventura?

[Dwight Southerland]

Gary -

You have zeroed in on the very good points that need to be restated ever so often so racers can mulch that stuff around in their reasoning brains. Though not all the time, often a very competitive low class car can be built and maintained for far less $ than a competitive high class car. That is not a hard and fast rule, but it is possible, as executed very well by some of the people who have posted on this thread. That should bear enough hope within it to give some people reason to not give up. There are associated challenges mechanically and emotionally that go with the territory of the slower classes that need to be faced, but I doubt if those challenges are as daunting as facing a competitive field in those faster classes that are highly refined, well financed, well supported in the performance industry, and the continuing target of new factory releases that are engineered and politicked to be dominant.

Some of the reasons that NHRA Sportsman drag racing (Stock Eliminator especially) has been so unique in the field of motor sports is that it is possible for participants to share the stage and the competitive arena with the highest performing examples of the sport in a nationally competitive arena with an entry that can be personally owned and created by commonly affordable incomes. You can race against the best of the best (within your unique little niche) in front of a huge audience on a nationally promoted level and claim a victory. The glory associated with that needs to be fully recognized, heralded and defended with extreme enthusiasm. It's similar to the person winning an Olympic medal for table tennis (ping pong). While that winner may not get the same ink and the public attention of the downhill skier or the 100 meter sprinter, that gold medal is exactly the same as his more illustrious competitor.

Those racers who fight for performance and victory in those slower classes have a grit and glory that is not known in the places where the rewards of money and public approval are abundant. All Stock Eliminator competitors know that feeling of satisfaction to some extent because the category as a whole is somewhat unrewarded. But those in the 13 or 14 second or slower classes know it even more fully. I personally do not ever what to see that go away and I applaud and encourage ever one of those people who have the courage to fight there.

My nickel soapbox.

[Billy Nees]

Wow! Dwight, that speech deserves a big "Attaboy".

[Jack McCarthy]

i second that :"atta boy"

just not the same anymore, all about money not talent
class wins and records mean absolutely nothing anymore

jack

and why would i want to go to that god forsaken, slow ***, billy goat mountainside track ?

[Richard Grant]

Jack, some of the nudges are:
1. eliminating running all classes at all national events. In the past if there were two or three fairly close national events, you could choose the one that best fit your schedule or needs.
2. Reducing the index's by .3. Now many cars that could barely run their index can't make the break especially if the weather doesn't cooperate.
3. Eliminating the attitude factors making it even more difficult to run under the index.
4. Increasing entry fees in a down ecomony.
5. Changing the AHPS so there is no place where you can run fast without receiving HP. It's taking the fun out of racing for many racers.
6. Fewer and fewer tracks which causes longer drives at higher gas prices.
Other factors have been stated and I am sure that other factors have not been pointed out.
The reason that race attendance is down is not one big factor even considering the factory cars. It's a bunch of little things done by people who don't understand what motivates the average sportsman racer. Many things are out of NHRA's control but this considered they must first make the right decisions about the things that are under their control.

[Jack Matyas]

Originally Posted by Richard Grant

Jack, some of the nudges are:
1. eliminating running all classes at all national events. In the past if there were two or three fairly close national events, you could choose the one that best fit your schedule or needs.
2. Reducing the index's by .3. Now many cars that could barely run their index can't make the break especially if the weather doesn't cooperate.
3. Eliminating the attitude factors making it even more difficult to run under the index.
4. Increasing entry fees in a down ecomony.
5. Changing the AHPS so there is no place where you can run fast without receiving HP. It's taking the fun out of racing for many racers.
6. Fewer and fewer tracks which causes longer drives at higher gas prices.
Other factors have been stated and I am sure that other factors have not been pointed out.
The reason that race attendance is down is not one big factor even considering the factory cars. It's a bunch of little things done by people who don't understand what motivates the average sportsman racer. Many things are out of NHRA's control but this considered they must first make the right decisions about the things that are under their control.

Richard - Lets try this one item at a time
1) - There are just not enough cars to run class at every national event
2)The .3 reduction was for everyone- not just the lower class cars .
3)Again the factors are for everyone
4)So you want more money with lesser entry fees - how will that work ?
5)You want it both ways - on one hand you say you can't run fast without the factors and on the other you want to run fast without penalty .
6)Fewer tracks and gas prices affect everyone .

And yes , the NHRA ( and any other sanctioning body ) must make wise decisions but they must be good for everyone including them .

Somehow even with writing this there are those who have their own agenda and I feel like I'm pissing in the wind ............pretty strong words even from me !

[Richard Grant]

OK, Jack by the numbers.
1. When I say all classes, I am talking about all Super classes, Super Stock, Stock, etc.
2. Yes, the reduction affected everyone. There are cars in all classes that cannot run the index now that they have been reduced. All I am saying is that reduces the number of racers that can compete. Why would NHRA want to make a change that reduces participation?
3. I agree.
4. I didn't mention more money. Just not raising entry fees.
5. I can run plenty fast enough to run with the new index's. I was pointing out that this is another way that NHRA is reducing participation.
6.Yes
My point was not only aimed at the lower class cars even though this thread is. After the comment about how nhra is nudging more and more racers out of racing, I was pointing out how they are nudging out racers from many areas.
BTY Jack, I don't have a problem with you personally. In the past I supported NHRA every way that I could as you are doing. Have fun, keep racing as long as your finances and health allow. I just wanted to point out how NHRA is hurting itself and many racers with it's decisions.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Jack Matyas

Richard - Lets try this one item at a time
1) - There are just not enough cars to run class at every national event
2)The .3 reduction was for everyone- not just the lower class cars .
3)Again the factors are for everyone
4)So you want more money with lesser entry fees - how will that work ?
5)You want it both ways - on one hand you say you can't run fast without the factors and on the other you want to run fast without penalty .
6)Fewer tracks and gas prices affect everyone .

And yes , the NHRA ( and any other sanctioning body ) must make wise decisions but they must be good for everyone including them .

Somehow even with writing this there are those who have their own agenda and I feel like I'm pissing in the wind ............pretty strong words even from me !

Ok Jack, I'll give you a different spin on your six responses to Richard:

1. True there aren't enough cars to run class at every national event, but since NHRA has chosen to increase our national event entry fees, membership and competition number fees, and allowed the manufactures to place more restrictions on how contingencies are earned, I'm not suprised as to why...over and beyond there still having some divisions that are geographically too large in America to make it more palatable for many racers budgets and time (starting with mine).

2. Those who can afford faster class cars probably have extra money to spend on the parts/work they can do to make their already faster cars more so, much easier than a slower roller likely can, so although the index change affected us all, faster class racers can more easily deal with it.

3. I'll agree with that one, but again see above.

4. I'm not sure how you get more money with less entry fee costs? Based on what I have to pay now for a national event entry, as opposed to the contingencies available for me to claim, I'm paying more for less...circa 1999 when I paid less than $200 bucks to race in a national event, and was able to enjoy winning $500 in class contingency money. Today's entry fees for national events are nearly double what they were then, and the best I can do in class is $50. What's fair about that?

5. I want the factors back the way they were, and my car isn't nearly quick enough to be concerned about any penalties. Since that won't likely happen, I'll be greatful again for a growing IHRA presence out west.

6. I'll agree with you on the first part of your statement, but again refer to my response #2 for the second part. Since most racers have more in their engines (money wise) than I do in my whole car, if I could afford to campaign a car like yours, I would still be racing (even inspite of the higher gas prices, that although are still high, are better than they were 1-4 months ago).

I wish you well too with your car, and I'm glad you're able to continue racing it. Since my budget isn't as good as yours is (thanks in a large part, to the lack of caring about MADE IN THE USA, by many around us), I do the best I can with what I have. This year so far has been much better for me with regards to the level of racing I could do, and thanks to IHRA's apparent greater caring for us class racers, now I can enjoy major league racing levels, without having to spend major league (enhanced) dollars....

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Richard Grant

Jack, some of the nudges are:
1. eliminating running all classes at all national events. In the past if there were two or three fairly close national events, you could choose the one that best fit your schedule or needs.
2. Reducing the index's by .3. Now many cars that could barely run their index can't make the break especially if the weather doesn't cooperate.
3. Eliminating the attitude factors making it even more difficult to run under the index.
4. Increasing entry fees in a down ecomony.
5. Changing the AHPS so there is no place where you can run fast without receiving HP. It's taking the fun out of racing for many racers.
6. Fewer and fewer tracks which causes longer drives at higher gas prices.
Other factors have been stated and I am sure that other factors have not been pointed out.
The reason that race attendance is down is not one big factor even considering the factory cars. It's a bunch of little things done by people who don't understand what motivates the average sportsman racer. Many things are out of NHRA's control but this considered they must first make the right decisions about the things that are under their control.

Well said Richard...another reason I've been glad to embrace the IHRA Finally in the western 1/2 of the country!

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Jack McCarthy

i second that :"atta boy"

just not the same anymore, all about money not talent
class wins and records mean absolutely nothing anymore

jack

and why would i want to go to that god forsaken, slow ***, billy goat mountainside track ?

x2 on your class win comments Jack (especially since the class win contingency postings I can claim have essentially diminished), and thanks to NHRA's index enhancements, I'm no longer able to run .5 or more under the index.

Dwight, I'll give you kudos for your remarks too, but I have greater motivation than even you mentioned:

It will give me great satisfaction to see a car line (the Chevy Cavalier) that was unjustly belittled by Consumer Reports (as were all American small cars), plus Car & Driver magazines, doing something that their more beloved Honda Civics, Acura Integra's, and other imports of their ilk have yet to even try! My car was built by the great people of Janesville, Wisconsin...people like all of you reading this. I believe in you guys/gals, and when I see all of these imports around me, when millions of Americans are unemployed because of "MADE IN THE USA" not seeming to matter on our roads/highways like it used to, not only am I glad to see the DP's and the CJ's being out here and quickly competitive (again kudos to Les Norton, for his SLC Nitro Jam win last week!), but I like it even more when fwd cars like mine, Charles Blossom's, Randy Hyman's, Michael Beard's, and all others who (for whatever reason) still race their fwd vehicles. For that matter, I root for anyone who's continuing to race a 14sec or slower stocker, because the challenges may be greater, but the satisfaction of accomplishing something that few have dared to try is greater too...kind of like the US MARINES...The Few, The Proud, The Slower Roller Dragracers!