Ford First "Stocker" Into The Eights

[Greg Hill]

I like the new cars. If I were going to buy one to drive on the street it would be a new Boss 302 Mustang. The problem with these new cars is the hp factor. They should have been put in their own classes ( fx) and run either in stock or super stock or both during eliminations. No one has a problem with them running in the eliminator, people just don't want to have to run them heads up or in class with these bogus factors. Ahfs will never fix the problem as long as new combinations with soft factors are introduced on a yearly basis.

[Jim Wahl]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

I like the new cars. If I were going to buy one to drive on the street it would be a new Boss 302 Mustang. The problem with these new cars is the hp factor. They should have been put in their own classes ( fx) and run either in stock or super stock or both during eliminations. No one has a problem with them running in the eliminator, people just don't want to have to run them heads up or in class with these bogus factors. Ahfs will never fix the problem as long as new combinations with soft factors are introduced on a yearly basis.

I agree (except for the Boss 302 Mustang part). Jim

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[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Greg Hill

I like the new cars. If I were going to buy one to drive on the street it would be a new Boss 302 Mustang. The problem with these new cars is the hp factor. They should have been put in their own classes ( fx) and run either in stock or super stock or both during eliminations. No one has a problem with them running in the eliminator, people just don't want to have to run them heads up or in class with these bogus factors. Ahfs will never fix the problem as long as new combinations with soft factors are introduced on a yearly basis.

You are exactly right. You have to wonder how looking at the specs these were allowed their HP ratings when approved. On what planet would the 5.9L DP be the same 275 HP as the 275 hp GM LT1? Really? If we still had Farmer this would not be such a mess. I was told the NHRA tech people do know that many DPs are running with two barrels on the throttle body disconnected, and they don't care. Bill Farmer Dismuke would have cared.

[MikeFicacci]

Congrats to Don for being the first 8-second stocker and congrats to JDM Engineering for supplying the power. Don goes out there every week with his foot to floor and his team spent countless hours getting that car that work.

What a lot of you guys don't know is that Don got the short-end of the NHRA stick 40-something years ago when he campaigned his Chevy and got run all over by the "new" under-factored combinations. Don didn't quit or bitch, and now his name is forever in the record books. Congrats guys.

[Alex Denysenko]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

You are exactly right. You have to wonder how looking at the specs these were allowed their HP ratings when approved. On what planet would the 5.9L DP be the same 275 HP as the 275 hp GM LT1? Really? If we still had Farmer this would not be such a mess. I was told the NHRA tech people do know that many DPs are running with two barrels on the throttle body disconnected, and they don't care. Bill Farmer Dismuke would have cared.

Yeah right Ed,
As I recall many of our mutual friends and fellow racers with 327/275 Chevies and 340/275 Mopars, and 351/285 Fords wondered the exact same thing in 1993.

I often wondered how GM could pull 30 HP more out of those with only a hood change?
I even asked Danny Gracia that same question.
Next time we see each other I will tell you what he said.

[Ed Wright]

But, Alex, if the LT1 is under rated, how can the 5.9 DP be rated the same, and not be even worse? Have you looked at the specs? No way a knowledgable person could compare the two and think "Yeah, those two are the same HP". I have data from someone I trust telling me those heads go 300 CFM right out of the box. My HeadsUp! LT1 SS heads are about 40 behind.

If your talking about the LT1 versus 5.9 DP HP rating I'm sure interested in hearing that one. :-)

That hood deal? Got me. I have taped the scoops up on my WS6 daily driver, it ran the same times both ways. I have dyno tested several on my old chassis dyno. If I gave you twenty dyno sheets, half ram air & half not, you could not tell me which were which. The low restriction exhaust that comes with the hood does not make as much difference as they vary car-to-car due to production tolerances and how they were broken in.

[Alex Denysenko]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

But, Alex, if the LT1 is under rated,
IT MOST CERTAINLY WAS

That hood deal? Got me. I have taped the scoops up on my WS6 daily driver, it ran the same times both ways. I have dyno tested several on my old chassis dyno. If I gave you twenty dyno sheets, half ram air & half not, you could not tell me which were which. The low restriction exhaust that comes with the hood does not make as much difference as they vary car-to-car due to production tolerances and how they were broken in.

You just proved my point exactly Ed.
Thank you.
Just goes to show that GM under rated it at least 30 HP.
Ask Monte Howard, or Mike Walter who were very accomplished stocker racers in their own right how they felt about the LT-1 HP when they hit the scene.
GM had their day in the S/SS sun for a long time when they were supplying NHRA with bags of cash and vehicles.

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Alex Denysenko

You just proved my point exactly Ed.
Thank you.
Just goes to show that GM under rated it at least 30 HP.
Ask Monte Howard, or Mike Walter who were very accomplished stocker racers in their own right how they felt about the LT-1 HP when they hit the scene.
GM had their day in the S/SS sun for a long time when they were supplying NHRA with bags of cash and vehicles.

Alex, put an out-of-the-vehicle (or GM replacement crate) LT1 on an engine dyno and you will find it won't make anywhere near it's NHRA rating. It takes a real freak for a stick F body to break 250 hp at the tires. Some of the performance is the car. 101" wheel base and a lot of engine set back. They will hook in a car wash. There is a lot of power hidden in those "stock" aluminiun heads. :-) That's one reason the SS LT1 hasn't gotten more power added in this many years. The SS heads aren't all THAT much better. Can you imagine what a set of SS ported 5.9l DP heads would be?