Factory Showdown at INDY

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by KRatcliff

His Corvette has a VIN and met emission standards at the time it was introduced. None of the factory ringers could meet emission standards at the time they were introduced with their compression ratios, throttle bodies, camshaft lifts, etc....

Were emission controls ever required on a Stocker? When Chevrolet built the 427 Corvettes and Camaros they were aimed at racing. They were also cutting edge for their time. Not your average daily driver!

No VIN = SS or AFX.

Which rule book are you reading? Lot's of Stockers have been built from non VIN cars.

Edited to add: Different strokes for different folks. If a racer is pleased with themselves for qualifying at the top of the sheet and walking away from the other cars in head's up situations then more power (AHFS ) to them. I am personally more competitive than that and want to feel like I actually accomplished something.

I said it a long time ago on here, the AHFS will sort these cars out over time. A new car should be faster than an old car. Why would the factories take a backwards step? Who would buy a slow car from them? I am glad that the factories have come back to Class racing.

[Ed Wright]

The only thing faster about the new cars are the bogus soft HP ratings. Put them in the correct class and nobody will mind them. It takes ahfs a long time to sort them out, the way guys are sand bagging. How many are loosing class and heads ups to bogus HP factors? Like drag packs that started out in H/SA? Now in what, A/SA? Makes formally slow guys, and new guys suddenly faster. Goes to their heads, then they cry every time they get some HP, and want to quit when they loose too much of the bogus advantage they had originally, like Mr newhemi.
Guys talk about how much work they take, like they are as hard to make run fast as the older cars. As if they had to do as much work as everybody else. I'm not going to mention who, I like the guy, but at Joliet was told by a really fast SS guy how his Mustang still had factory pistons, rods, crank. He said the engine had never been out of the car. I know it was raced last year, and so far this year. I don't know about the year before. I met him at Indy last year. He is very fast. Heck, my engine has been redone twice since I first saw his car. Yeah, they are really tough to make run.

[C and W Racing]

I thought that was what this whole thread was about. Them in their own class racing each other.
Chuck

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by C and W Racing

I thought that was what this whole thread was about. Them in their own class racing each other.
Chuck

That's where they belong, all the time.

[C and W Racing]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

That's where they belong, all the time.

They run in AAA, AA, and BB. How many of the older cars are in those classes ?
Chuck

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by C and W Racing

They run in AAA, AA, and BB. How many of the older cars are in those classes ?
Chuck

In SS most of them have gotten no HP. Those are the ones I care about. Drag packs running on 2 barrels and NA Mustangs with bogus HP rated, de-factored crate engines.
Your talking about blown Mustangs. Those aren't the only bogus underrated engines.

[KRatcliff]

Originally Posted by GUMP

Were emission controls ever required on a Stocker? When Chevrolet built the 427 Corvettes and Camaros they were aimed at racing. They were also cutting edge for their time. Not your average daily driver!




Which rule book are you reading? Lot's of Stockers have been built from non VIN cars.




I said it a long time ago on here, the AHFS will sort these cars out over time. A new car should be faster than an old car. Why would the factories take a backwards step? Who would buy a slow car from them? I am glad that the factories have come back to Class racing.

Ok, lets work with a little better reading comprehension this time. I clearly stated "His Corvette has a VIN and met emission standards at the time it was introduced. None of the factory ringers could meet emission standards at the time they were introduced with their compression ratios, throttle bodies, camshaft lifts, etc...."

Translation....well hell, it is pretty clear the way I wrote it. It wasn't written in the manner you attempted to twist it. Even the examples you listed met the emission standards at the time they were introduced. Try again.

The rule book I read is the NHRA (and IHRA when I race there). I also read the stocker classification guides. Name one car before the Mustangs in 2008 and the Dragpaks in 2009 that were allowed in the guide that weren't cars with a VIN. Mebbe you can name one. I am curious to know. All cars I am aware of that didn't come with VIN went into Superstock ie: Hemi Darts & Cudas. Building a wrecked car or a salvaged car as a Stocker isn't the same as a manufacturer introducing it to the NHRA to be placed in the guide.

Let the AHFS sort them out in their own class. There are several of the factory ringers that are in the lower classes slowly causing havoc on their way up. But as I said before, if you get satisfaction out of winning that way then more power to you.

It does nothing for me.

[boster]

Kevin , I think you are wrong on the 08 mustang engines . You can buy the same engine in a 08 stocker for your street car and it will pass emissions with headers and a street legal exhaust and it came in a GT500 from the factory. It is a true factory engine that anyone can buy from ford and but in their car .

Now the Copo engine might be different from the spec I have seen

Jeff , leave the little guy alone , his ego bruises easily

[GUMP]

Originally Posted by KRatcliff

Ok, lets work with a little better reading comprehension this time. I clearly stated "His Corvette has a VIN and met emission standards at the time it was introduced. None of the factory ringers could meet emission standards at the time they were introduced with their compression ratios, throttle bodies, camshaft lifts, etc...."

I'm not sure that reading comprehension is my issue, but, I guess you could be right. The point that I was trying to make is that I didn't know that those guidelines had ever been in the rule book. Again I could be wrong. But, I race by todays rules and the new factory cars are legal.

The rule book I read is the NHRA (and IHRA when I race there). I also read the stocker classification guides. Name one car before the Mustangs in 2008 and the Dragpaks in 2009 that were allowed in the guide that weren't cars with a VIN. Mebbe you can name one. I am curious to know. All cars I am aware of that didn't come with VIN went into Superstock ie: Hemi Darts & Cudas. Building a wrecked car or a salvaged car as a Stocker isn't the same as a manufacturer introducing it to the NHRA to be placed in the guide.

That's easy. The 1998 LT1 Firebird that you race. By your own definition it doesn't meet your rules. It was never built so it could never get a VIN or pass emissions. I have built three 1998 LT1 cars. They are a lot of fun. They are in the guide. So, they are legal.

Let the AHFS sort them out in their own class. There are several of the factory ringers that are in the lower classes slowly causing havoc on their way up. But as I said before, if you get satisfaction out of winning that way then more power to you.

I agree. At the time that I purchased my first LT1 in 1995 I did so because it looked like the best new car combination available. It turned out to be a great combination. I feel the same way about the new cars. My Formula is getting pretty old, so I am moving on to something new.

[KRatcliff]

The point of the emmissions/VIN comment is that it isn't just a technology advancement that is making these factory ringers more competitive than the cars that have been accepted in the guide up to their release. It is that the factories leaned on the NHRA to accept cars to compete with all the other stockers that have components that wouldn't function on the street. That is a stocker in my opinion and it also meets the intent of the rules. Anything beyond that would be factory experimental or a super stocker which is a natural extension of a stocker.

My 1998 LT1 example you are using is weak at best. The engine did meet those emission standards and is no different than any that were in thousands of cars before. There is zero performance advantage of a 1998 over a 1997 or beyond. Can you say that about these new cars? Is there any advantage over their street versions? More compression? Bigger blowers (more compression)? More radical camshafts? Larger throttle bodies?

Yes, the new cars are in the guide. Enjoy your ride. I am sure it will be nice and fast. You shouldn't have to sweat qualifying at Indy or any heads up matches unless it is another of the newer cars. Be careful of what you wish for because you may actually get it. The game you are playing is way more expensive than the one I am.