The damage recently done

[Toby Lang]

Originally Posted by Billy Nees

If you have the proper paperwork then just post it on here ...

I assume this isn't happening.


-Toby

[Jeff Lee]

Billy...I don't owe you or the horse you rode in on...squat! I don't know how to make it any clearer.

[Andrew Hill]

What I want to know is, with all of these extra performance parts approved for various combos, not just the AMCs, does it really feel like an accomplishment when you outrun the next guy who runs the parts his car came with? Running a second under with the autolite carb and cast iron intake, I'm sure, feels like a huge accomplishment. Won't the aftermarket parts dilute that? What is the point in going 1.40 under when you could go 1.00 under or more with the stock stuff? Obviously, the horsepower factors are never going to be perfect, but if Mr. Lee ran 10.50s 7 years ago, it definitely was not a bad combination before the 780 Holley, aluminum intake, and big cam. I would much rather run fast with a legit combination than a soft one, but I guess that's why I have no desire to run a new car.

[Billy Nees]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hill

Mr. Lee ran 10.50s 7 years ago, it definitely was not a bad combination before the 780 Holley, aluminum intake, and big cam.

It shouldn't be a bad combination! Before he got all of these new parts approved he worked the HP committee for a 25 HP reduction. All of these affected combos have already been given HP reductions prior to the new parts.

[Charley Downing]

Andrew I don't see to many stockers with stock parts
Acid ported heads and intake
Aftermarket pistons, rods, valves, cams, roller rockers
Metric Trans that was never offered in the 1960's and early 70's
Your beloved 1960's and 1970's stockers are far from stock as new cars. Old combos are as much of the problem as new combs.

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

Andrew I don't see to many stockers with stock parts
Acid ported heads and intake
Aftermarket pistons, rods, valves, cams, roller rockers
Metric Trans that was never offered in the 1960's and early 70's
Your beloved 1960's and 1970's stockers are far from stock as new cars. Old combos are as much of the problem as new combs.

You're right that stock doesn't have nearly as much stock as it used to, but everyone has aftermarket pistons, rods, valves, cams, etc. Those rules are the same for all combinations, and it's a lot different than completely replacing an intake with a much better one, a completely different carburetor that flows 1.5x or more what the old one did, and a cam with larger lift. It's obvious stock has progressed a lot, but my car still has the heads that came on it in 1970, same with the untouched intake manifold, type of carburetor (yes it's an aftermarket one but the same design), etc. None of the new cars are as close to stock as mine, although some are close just with messed up HP factors. Even the ones like yours, essentially the motor that came in the Mustang GTs before the 5.0, have more compression that the stock ones.

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hill

You're right that stock doesn't have nearly as much stock as it used to, but everyone has aftermarket pistons, rods, valves, cams, etc. Those rules are the same for all combinations, and it's a lot different than completely replacing an intake with a much better one, a completely different carburetor that flows 1.5x or more what the old one did, and a cam with larger lift. It's obvious stock has progressed a lot, but my car still has the heads that came on it in 1970, same with the untouched intake manifold, type of carburetor (yes it's an aftermarket one but the same design), etc. None of the new cars are as close to stock as mine, although some are close just with messed up HP factors. Even the ones like yours, essentially the motor that came in the Mustang GTs before the 5.0, have more compression that the stock ones.

I'll agree with much of what you said here Andrew, as long as the slower half of Stock isn't included with that, because I think the slower rollers are much more stock like than the faster half of the category...one glaring bit of proof; I don't see slower rollers with wheelie bars, or a mention of Cal-tracs on them. Furthermore, I think I can safely assume that the major percentage of engine parts on all fwd combos are stock (only the camshaft and needed supporting parts are aftermarket on my car)....I think that applies also to the R/S(A), and lower classes too (maybe to some of the quicker versions of the slower roller classes)?

My car is about as stock as stock can get, which is one of the reasons I still dislike NHRA reducing the indexes .3 seconds, and changing our altitude correction factors to resemble the Super Classes. NHRA, PLEASE EITHER GIVE US BACK THOSE .3 OF A SECOND, AND/OR GIVE US BACK OUR STOCK/SUPER STOCK ALTITUDE CORRECTION FACTORS....THEY WERE MORE FAIR TO ALL CLASSES, AND TO RACERS IN ALL TRACKS!!!

[dwydendorf]

Isn't it amazing that the guys that are complaining the most, are GM guys and it is them who have been the benefactors of probably more rule changes and superseded parts as anyone. Remember unported heads and no combustion mods in Super Stock? It was the small block Chevy racers that pushed the rules as much as, if not more than anyone to get the head rules in Super Stock changed. Remember when Bowtie blocks with siamesed Cylinders were legal before anyone else could use a siamesed block? How about 327 intakes on 283's or how the small block Chevys were mysteriously allowed 550 gram connecting rods when the old spec was 570 grams? I am not an AMC racer but I think it is about time that they were allowed some enhancements that some of the other brands have been allowed. After all, isn't the AHFS supposed to take care of any runaway combinations? This is pure speculation on my part, but just maybe the NHRA tech department has gotten tired of all the GM guys complaining about every little thing and decided to really give you guys something to complain about. Or maybe the tech guys thought it would be nice to see something other than Camaros in Stock and Super Stock. Hey GM guys, keep complaining because it is helping the AMC's,Mopars and Fords and we need more of those brands in Stock and Super Stock.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by dwydendorf

Isn't it amazing that the guys that are complaining the most, are GM guys and it is them who have been the benefactors of probably more rule changes and superseded parts as anyone. Remember unported heads and no combustion mods in Super Stock? It was the small block Chevy racers that pushed the rules as much as, if not more than anyone to get the head rules in Super Stock changed. Remember when Bowtie blocks with siamesed Cylinders were legal before anyone else could use a siamesed block? How about 327 intakes on 283's or how the small block Chevys were mysteriously allowed 550 gram connecting rods when the old spec was 570 grams? I am not an AMC racer but I think it is about time that they were allowed some enhancements that some of the other brands have been allowed. After all, isn't the AHFS supposed to take care of any runaway combinations? This is pure speculation on my part, but just maybe the NHRA tech department has gotten tired of all the GM guys complaining about every little thing and decided to really give you guys something to complain about. Or maybe the tech guys thought it would be nice to see something other than Camaros in Stock and Super Stock. Hey GM guys, keep complaining because it is helping the AMC's,Mopars and Fords and we need more of those brands in Stock and Super Stock.

That is just the tip of the iceberg...

Let's add the enhancements on cylinder heads, pistons and cams that have taken place; they all mostly started with GM cars.

I believe if the rules allows enhancements for one make, they should be the same for other makes.

So to Billy and Paul...
Do you believe it is okay to allow the 1962 Plymouth 383/343 HP with over the counter parts that adds two 4;BBL's, cylinder heads with bigger valves a a different cam compete and not do so with the AMC's with the same approach minus the cylinder heads???

[noel t davis]

Can't figure out all the complaining. As long as you're putting shoe polish on the window what does it matter. I am not a naive newcomer either, have been racing stock,super stock, and comp starting in 1966. Nhra 325 stk,ss,comp.