The damage recently done

[GarysZ24]

Originally Posted by Andrew Hill

You're right that stock doesn't have nearly as much stock as it used to, but everyone has aftermarket pistons, rods, valves, cams, etc. Those rules are the same for all combinations, and it's a lot different than completely replacing an intake with a much better one, a completely different carburetor that flows 1.5x or more what the old one did, and a cam with larger lift. It's obvious stock has progressed a lot, but my car still has the heads that came on it in 1970, same with the untouched intake manifold, type of carburetor (yes it's an aftermarket one but the same design), etc. None of the new cars are as close to stock as mine, although some are close just with messed up HP factors. Even the ones like yours, essentially the motor that came in the Mustang GTs before the 5.0, have more compression that the stock ones.

I'll agree with much of what you said here Andrew, as long as the slower half of Stock isn't included with that, because I think the slower rollers are much more stock like than the faster half of the category...one glaring bit of proof; I don't see slower rollers with wheelie bars, or a mention of Cal-tracs on them. Furthermore, I think I can safely assume that the major percentage of engine parts on all fwd combos are stock (only the camshaft and needed supporting parts are aftermarket on my car)....I think that applies also to the R/S(A), and lower classes too (maybe to some of the quicker versions of the slower roller classes)?

My car is about as stock as stock can get, which is one of the reasons I still dislike NHRA reducing the indexes .3 seconds, and changing our altitude correction factors to resemble the Super Classes. NHRA, PLEASE EITHER GIVE US BACK THOSE .3 OF A SECOND, AND/OR GIVE US BACK OUR STOCK/SUPER STOCK ALTITUDE CORRECTION FACTORS....THEY WERE MORE FAIR TO ALL CLASSES, AND TO RACERS IN ALL TRACKS!!!

[dwydendorf]

Isn't it amazing that the guys that are complaining the most, are GM guys and it is them who have been the benefactors of probably more rule changes and superseded parts as anyone. Remember unported heads and no combustion mods in Super Stock? It was the small block Chevy racers that pushed the rules as much as, if not more than anyone to get the head rules in Super Stock changed. Remember when Bowtie blocks with siamesed Cylinders were legal before anyone else could use a siamesed block? How about 327 intakes on 283's or how the small block Chevys were mysteriously allowed 550 gram connecting rods when the old spec was 570 grams? I am not an AMC racer but I think it is about time that they were allowed some enhancements that some of the other brands have been allowed. After all, isn't the AHFS supposed to take care of any runaway combinations? This is pure speculation on my part, but just maybe the NHRA tech department has gotten tired of all the GM guys complaining about every little thing and decided to really give you guys something to complain about. Or maybe the tech guys thought it would be nice to see something other than Camaros in Stock and Super Stock. Hey GM guys, keep complaining because it is helping the AMC's,Mopars and Fords and we need more of those brands in Stock and Super Stock.

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by dwydendorf

Isn't it amazing that the guys that are complaining the most, are GM guys and it is them who have been the benefactors of probably more rule changes and superseded parts as anyone. Remember unported heads and no combustion mods in Super Stock? It was the small block Chevy racers that pushed the rules as much as, if not more than anyone to get the head rules in Super Stock changed. Remember when Bowtie blocks with siamesed Cylinders were legal before anyone else could use a siamesed block? How about 327 intakes on 283's or how the small block Chevys were mysteriously allowed 550 gram connecting rods when the old spec was 570 grams? I am not an AMC racer but I think it is about time that they were allowed some enhancements that some of the other brands have been allowed. After all, isn't the AHFS supposed to take care of any runaway combinations? This is pure speculation on my part, but just maybe the NHRA tech department has gotten tired of all the GM guys complaining about every little thing and decided to really give you guys something to complain about. Or maybe the tech guys thought it would be nice to see something other than Camaros in Stock and Super Stock. Hey GM guys, keep complaining because it is helping the AMC's,Mopars and Fords and we need more of those brands in Stock and Super Stock.

That is just the tip of the iceberg...

Let's add the enhancements on cylinder heads, pistons and cams that have taken place; they all mostly started with GM cars.

I believe if the rules allows enhancements for one make, they should be the same for other makes.

So to Billy and Paul...
Do you believe it is okay to allow the 1962 Plymouth 383/343 HP with over the counter parts that adds two 4;BBL's, cylinder heads with bigger valves a a different cam compete and not do so with the AMC's with the same approach minus the cylinder heads???

[Crew Chief]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

...Do you believe it is okay to allow the 1962 Plymouth 383/343 HP with over the counter parts that adds two 4;BBL's, cylinder heads with bigger valves a a different cam compete and not do so with the AMC's with the same approach minus the cylinder heads???

The 62 Plymouth 383/343 was accepted by the tech dept in 1962 and has been allowed since 1962.

The AMC over the counter modification parts were not accepted until just recently by someone. That means it must have been turned down by the tech dept in the late 60's and has been denied for several decades.

In recent years several non-stock, bolt-on, across the counter modification parts that are only listed in OEM accessory catalogs have been added which is in direct contridiction to the rulebook. Maybe whoever is accepting this stuff needs to be reminded of what their own rulebook states for Stock class!

"Section 10A, page 3 ENGINE: Must be same make and year as car used, aftermarket NHRA-accepted cylinder blocks permitted. Equipment other than original factory-installed prohibited. Any special equipment export-kit (superchargers, dealer-installed options, etc.) automatically disqualifies car."

Wanna bet that rule gets deleted for next year?

Maybe it will be changed to..."Across the counter parts listed in accessory catalogs by the OEM for bolt-on modifications will now be accepted no matter how long ago the catalog was printed or how many times the original tech dept turned the parts down."

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

"Section 10A, page 3 ENGINE: Must be same make and year as car used, aftermarket NHRA-accepted cylinder blocks permitted. Equipment other than original factory-installed prohibited. Any special equipment export-kit (superchargers, dealer-installed options, etc.) automatically disqualifies car."

Not anymore...since 2009

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Crew Chief

The 62 Plymouth 383/343 was accepted by the tech dept in 1962 and has been allowed since 1962.

The AMC over the counter modification parts were not accepted until just recently by someone. That means it must have been turned down by the tech dept in the late 60's and has been denied for several decades.

In recent years several non-stock, bolt-on, across the counter modification parts that are only listed in OEM accessory catalogs have been added which is in direct contridiction to the rulebook. Maybe whoever is accepting this stuff needs to be reminded of what their own rulebook states for Stock class!

"Section 10A, page 3 ENGINE: Must be same make and year as car used, aftermarket NHRA-accepted cylinder blocks permitted. Equipment other than original factory-installed prohibited. Any special equipment export-kit (superchargers, dealer-installed options, etc.) automatically disqualifies car."

Wanna bet that rule gets deleted for next year?

Maybe it will be changed to..."Across the counter parts listed in accessory catalogs by the OEM for bolt-on modifications will now be accepted no matter how long ago the catalog was printed or how many times the original tech dept turned the parts down."

Like Dwydendorf commented; the rules seems to have preference on certain car makes and are not applied consistently across the board.

Let's take an example as to "Dealer Installed Options"; how did the Saleen and Roush cars got in the books?

There are so many items such as options and modified parts that have been allowed in the books and suddenly everyone is up on arms and get their shorts all wadded up when AMC's get some allowances like other makes!

We can all point to how many things NHRA has allowed throughout the years. Another example is when they allowed automatic transmissions in the 1967 Galaxie 427 with two 4BBL's; they were a stick car only from the factory. When I asked NHRA about it, they said since an automatic trans was available in the Galaxie model, they allowed it although it was not available with the engine.

Another example was many years ago when a friend was thinking of running Stock Eliminator with a 396/375 HP Chevy. He buys a set of OEM pistons and also the replacement TRW pistons. Purchases the latest Lunati stocker cam and calls me because all his valves were hitting the piston dome. I check the engine and there was no way the cam would clear the pistons. I make a few calls and find out about the machining and massaging of the valve reliefs and later on the glass beading to hide the mods to make the cam work. He choose to just bracket race in lieu of modifying his pistons. Therefore, could we assume the pistons were modified prior to submission to NHRA for approval?

..and the list goes on...

[junior barns]

[QUOTE=SSDiv6;345517]Like Dwydendorf commented; the rules seems to have preference on certain car makes and are not applied consistently across the board.


We can all point to how many things NHRA has allowed throughout the years. Another example is when they allowed automatic transmissions in the 1967 Galaxie 427 with two 4BBL's; they were a stick car only from the factory. When I asked NHRA about it, they said since an automatic trans was available in the Galaxie model, they allowed it although it was not available with the engine

So is this the standard on all applications or do you need to get each combo approved using this rule???

[Paul Precht]

Originally Posted by SSDiv6

That is just the tip of the iceberg...

Let's add the enhancements on cylinder heads, pistons and cams that have taken place; they all mostly started with GM cars.

I believe if the rules allows enhancements for one make, they should be the same for other makes.

So to Billy and Paul...
Do you believe it is okay to allow the 1962 Plymouth 383/343 HP with over the counter parts that adds two 4;BBL's, cylinder heads with bigger valves a a different cam compete and not do so with the AMC's with the same approach minus the cylinder heads???

I know you're talking to the other Paul but I'll add my 2 cents. The 383/343 had a different HP factor that was about right where as the single four early 383s were never competitive until the HP was finally dropped in the 2Ks. The cam, 445 compared to 430 lift means very little as the 445 lift lost 25 thousandths or so to the lash for the solid lifters. The manifold for the 343 hp wasn't some new high tech mani, it first appeared in late 1957, mine is dated 10-57, they were first used on the 58 Furys with the dual quad 350 like in the movie Christine. The larger exhaust valve is almost meaningless in performance. Allowing a Holley 3310 which flows 800CFM over a 600 CFM carb in today's Stock or Super Stock without changing the HP factor is quite a gift, I have 343 AMCs on my mind right now. 67 Marlin in the 10s in stock, it could happen in the right hands.

[noel t davis]

Can't figure out all the complaining. As long as you're putting shoe polish on the window what does it matter. I am not a naive newcomer either, have been racing stock,super stock, and comp starting in 1966. Nhra 325 stk,ss,comp.

Originally Posted by noel t davis

Can't figure out all the complaining. As long as you're putting shoe polish on the window what does it matter. I am not a naive newcomer either, have been racing stock,super stock, and comp starting in 1966. Nhra 325 stk,ss,comp.

We still race HEADS UP WHEN MEETING A CAR IN THE SAME CLASS. This is not Pro ET. If a car get an advantage with superceeded parts with no HP increase, it decreases the other guy's chance to win these types of races. Im sure the same thing would happen in 1966