HP adjustments after the Dutch - posted

[Bob Moulton]

We were there and a good friend of mine told me that he went over to him and congratulated him on setting the record and he was like a kid at Xmas!!!! I didn't talk to him myself!!!!!! If anyone knows different, PLEASE chime in.

[gsa612]

Originally Posted by mark callanan

Bob

Are you sure he was trying to set the record?
Not a statement but a question?

Was the record set on the first pass ? on your other runs you can slow the car down 2 tenths then you don,t have the 1% backup therefore no record.. gsa612

[boster]

Where does it say below that you must pass tech to get AHFS, I cant find it anywhere but I might be missing it. What it does say is runs 1.20 under or more get automatic HP the following tuesday .

Automatic Horsepower Factoring System (AHFS) explained
The AHFS is used to review and evaluate runs in Stock and Super Stock for possible horsepower adjustments. The review is conducted twice per racing season. The two reviews are compiled individually so the data is not cumulative. Runs included in the AHFS database are limited to final qualifying runs (Q data) and all elimination runs (E data) at all NHRA National and LODRS events. (At events where class eliminations are run, all runs are included in the AHFS database. Only the first round of class is part of qualifying and therefore is part of the "Q" database.) The "Q" data and "E" data files are the official data gathered by the NHRA timing system and processed through the NHRA Information Technology department. NHRA "Q" data and "E" data are the only data files used for the AHFS.

The first review period includes data from National and LODRS events 1 through 11 and the second period includes runs from events 12 through 22. The following procedure is used in reviewing run data:

Final qualifying, class eliminations, and elimination runs of 1.00 seconds or more, under the index, at NHRA National and LODRS events will trigger an automatic review. (The combination must make at least two runs of 1.00 or quicker before a review is triggered to prevent a "one time fast run" from triggering the system.) In reviewing runs of 1.00 or more under the index, the database of runs for the engine combination being reviewed are put through three screenings as listed below. The screenings will look for an overall engine family average or class/engine average faster than 0.850-second under. Runs of .350 and slower are not included in calculating the engine or class/engine averages:
Engine family average: The overall engine average for all cars, regardless of class, running the particular engine combination being reviewed are included in this screening.
Class/engine average where engine is run: The class/engine average of the car running the specific combination in the class that triggered the review is studied.
Body style and transmission type: Also considered in the above two screening processes are body style of the engine combination being reviewed and transmission type. Adjustments are only in effect for the specific car model being evaluated. The body style are generally classified by the OEM auto manufacturers' definition of "platform", i.e., the Camaro and Firebird body are both based on the same platform and therefore considered the same with regard to body-style classification. In some instances, however, more than one body style will trigger a review. With regards to transmission type, if the class average triggers the review, the adjustment would be for classes with the type of transmission triggering the change. However, if an engine family average triggers the review, the adjustment would be for all transmission types.
If either the engine family average or the class/engine average are found to be faster than 0.850-second under, a change will be initiated.
To more clearly illustrate how the AHFS program affects a given combination, the following is a hypothetical evaluation in Stock class for a 305-cubic-inch, 215 factory rated horsepower, fuel-injected Camaro during a review period:

Two K/SA Camaros running this combination ran 1.114- and 1.187- second under the index, triggering a review. As per the procedure outlined above, the overall engine average is analyzed first. Upon reviewing the engine average made by the 305/215/241 FI combination, 10 runs had been recorded (2 in K/SA and 8 in L/SA) with a total engine average of .845-second under. Because the overall engine average did not hit the required 0.850 under, the combination did not warrant a horsepower adjustment based on overall engine average.

The next step, per the procedure outlined above, is a class/engine review. The class of the car that actually triggered the review was K/SA. The class review revealed that K/SA had a class/engine average for the combination in question of 1.101-second under, therefore surpassing the 0.850-second-under requirement and signaling a horsepower adjustment for all 305/215/241 FI Camaros.

An important element to note and one most often misunderstood by racers is that although a K/SA Camaro affected the change, the L/SA 305/215/241 FI Camaros that run this combination also received a horsepower adjustment. The reason is that a specific combination can run in more than one class based on NHRA rules; therefore, all cars with the specific engine combination, transmission and body style will be affected.

Once the need for an adjustment is determined, the following sliding-scale formula, based on a percentage of horsepower, is used to calculate the horsepower increase:

Under Index
Horsepower Increase
Index Change
1.000-1.099
1.25%
-.05
1.100-1.199
2.25%
-.10
1.200-1.249
3.25%
-.15
(immediate change)
1.250-1.299
4.25%
-.20 (immediate change)
1.300-1.349
5.25%
-.25 (immediate change)
1.350-1.399
6.25%
-.30 (immediate change)
1.400-1.449
7.25%
-.35 (immediate change)
1.450- 1.499
8.25%
-.40 (immediate change)
1.500- 1.549
9.25%
-.45 (immediate change)
1.550- 1.599
10.25%
-.50 (immediate change)
1.600- 1.649
11.25%
-.55 (immediate change)
1.650- 1.699
12.25%
-.60 (immediate change)
1.700- 1.749
13.25%
-.65 (immediate change)
1.750- 1.799
14.25%
-.70 (immediate change)
1.800- 1.849
15.25%
-.75 (immediate change)
1.850- 1.899
16.25%
-.80 (immediate change)
1.900- 1.949
17.25%
-.85 (immediate change)
1.950- 1.999
18.25%
-.90 (immediate change)


Adjustments are rounded up to the nearest full horsepower even if the fraction is below 0.5 horsepower. As an example, 2.15 horsepower is rounded to 3 horsepower. The quickest run, by the combination being reviewed, is used to determine the adjustment percentage.

Runs of 1.200 or more under the index will be reviewed and adjusted Tuesday following the event. Runs at all NHRA events, including those at altitude factored race tracks, are included in the 1.200-second-or-more-under analysis. This is done to better react to any out-of-line indexes or under-horsepowered combinations. Therefore, at all such events, a horsepower adjustment or index reduction will be initiated Tuesday following the event.
The decision to adjust horsepower or to reduce the index will be at the discretion of the NHRA Tech Department.

In addition to reviews resulting in a horsepower increase, a written request (only one request per competitor, per review period.) will trigger a review for the purpose of a decrease in horsepower factor or index adjustment. The request must include eliminator, year, model, engine size, advertised horsepower, factored horsepower, and class; to be eligible. Incomplete requests will not be reviewed.

The screenings will look for an overall engine family average less than 0.550-seconds under. Runs of 0.100-second under and slower are not included in calculating the engine average:

In addition, the combination must NOT make two runs of 0.650 or quicker for the review to continue or any run 0.850 or quicker.)

Engine family average: The overall engine average for all cars, regardless of class, running the particular engine combination being reviewed is included in this screening. If the engine family average is found to be slower than 0.550-second under, a change will be initiated.

To more clearly illustrate how the AHFS program affects a given combination, the following is a hypothetical evaluation in Stock Eliminator for a 305 cubic-inch, 150 factory rated horsepower, carbureted Camaro during a review period:

A written request triggered a review by the committee. As per the procedure outlined above, there were NOT 2 runs 0.650-second or quicker preventing a review or ANY run 0.850-second or quicker preventing a review. The overall engine average is analyzed next. Upon reviewing the engine average made by the combination, 10 runs had been recorded (2 in I/SA and 8 in J/SA) with a total engine average of 0.535-second under. Because the overall engine average did not hit the required 0.550-second under, the combination proceeds with the evaluation.

Once the need for an adjustment is determined, the following sliding-scale formula, based on a percentage of horsepower, is used to calculate the horsepower decrease:

Under Index
Horsepower Decrease
Index Change
0.166-quicker
1.25%
+.05
0.101-0.165
2.25%
+.10

Adjustments are rounded up to the nearest full horsepower even if the fraction is below 0.5 horsepower. As an example, 2.15 horsepower is rounded to 3 horsepower. The quickest run, by the combination being reviewed, is used to determine the adjustment percentage. The decision to adjust horsepower or to increase the index will be at the discretion on the AHFS Committee.

[Mike Carr]

Originally Posted by boster

Where does it say below that you must pass tech to get AHFS, I cant find it anywhere but I might be missing it. What it does say is runs 1.20 under or more get automatic HP the following tuesday .

Runs of 1.200 or more under the index will be reviewed and adjusted Tuesday following the event. Runs at all NHRA events, including those at altitude factored race tracks, are included in the 1.200-second-or-more-under analysis. This is done to better react to any out-of-line indexes or under-horsepowered combinations. Therefore, at all such events, a horsepower adjustment or index reduction will be initiated Tuesday following the event.
The decision to adjust horsepower or to reduce the index will be at the discretion of the NHRA Tech Department.

It was in your quote of the rules. This is not unprecedented. A car ran -1.40 a few years ago (when -1.40 was the automatic hit), was light at the scales, and his run was DQ'd, and, hence, no HP adjustment in that instance.

[boster]

Mike I'm sorry but im not reading that anywhere , can you quote it for me because the paragraph you posted does not say that in my opinion.

If its this line "The decision to adjust horsepower or to reduce the index will be at the discretion of the NHRA Tech Department" to me that reads tech has the right to give hp or Index put has to do one or the other

[Bruce Noland]

A racer does not have to pass any form of a technical inspection before receiving any type of adjustment from the ahfs. But the division tech staff can ask for a technical inspection at any time. That is what happened in this instance. The tech guy rolled up and asked the racer to take his car to the barn. The racer instantly agreed.

[Jim Whitehead]

BO : Do they really need to spell it all out in the AHFS If you follow the stock- ss Guide the car should pass tech at any time. Along with min weight

[Gary Parker]

I have been going through the rule book and need some help Bo. I can not find it anywhere stating that runs made by cars found to be illeagle count. Please tell me where it says cars that are found to be illeagle can race and set records.. I just do not see it anywhere.... Thanks Gary Parker

[cambria]

Not that I have a burning desire to get involved in this discussion but does it not make sense to not count a combo that is illegal because of its impact on others who are running the same combo legally? That being said it would seem logical however that some form of penalty may be imposed for having an illegal combo and that would address the situation.Also i dont think it is possibe to simply avoid the scales and avoid the HP otherwise when you got the time ticket you would just drive by the scale and never worry about HP.

[Stocker 2]

This is what seems to happen.

If you go 1.20 or more under the index either in qualifying or eliminations you get horsepower (or index hit) on Tuesday morning. The car is weighed, fuel checked, and engine torn down. If any of the three are found to be wrong, the run is ruled illegal and the automatic hit does not happen.

In the past cars have went 1.20 or more under at a race and it was not noticed until after the race was over. Even though no post-run tech occurred at the race, the horsepower hit still was applied.

However if a car IS found wrong in the post-run inspection, no horsepower hit is applied. That happened at two races recently, the Dutch Classic and the Jeg's Northern Sportsnationals. Both cars in question were found illegal in teardown so no horsepower was put on either combination.

Kudos to the tech dept for doing their job.