Aftermarket Cranks

[Larry Hill]

Rusty it will not hurt.

[Larry Hill]

If a 400 "B" block is used in place of a "RB" 383, 413, 426, and 440 blocks the rod will be to short center to center and the compression height of the piston would be short. The rod and piston would be wrong.

Rods have a service life. I think NHRA should resend the use of "custom length" rod in Stock at the end of the 2014 season, for the FE Ford engine. If a racer has a new set of rods of "custom length" they will get two years service life from their investment.

NHRA has a chance to right a wrong that affects all of us that race stock. If you don't believe it affects all just think of this real life scenario.

Indy 2013 Stock. 180 entrants 128 qualifiers, what 52 cars can you out qualify? Lets say you are #129 and everyone is legal. Above you on the qualifying sheet are four FE Fords, all have the approved rod. All four are in bottom half of the field, just a few hundreds of a second in front of you. Part of the reason they are ahead of you is that every time the crank is turned from 2.437" to 2.200" the surface area of the original is approximately 10% bigger than the new finished size of 2.200. So if my math is correct the FE Fords have a 10% reduction in surface area and a big reduction in friction.

People who had a hand in getting the "Custom Length " rod approved by NHRA knew they were cheating the system. The worst thing they did was to cheat me and the other racers!

[Rusty2211]

Larry,
The rods are not custom length?? The center-to-center is the same as factory FE rods? I'll give you the fact the the rod is probably more reliable than the bigger rod end, but that's about it. When there are E/SA Mustangs that can run 10.00 at 3000' at Indy, I think you are barking up the wrong ladder.

Rusty

[Sean Cour]

Originally Posted by Rusty2211

Larry,
The rods are not custom length?? The center-to-center is the same as factory FE rods? I'll give you the fact the the rod is probably more reliable than the bigger rod end, but that's about it. When there are E/SA Mustangs that can run 10.00 at 3000' at Indy, I think you are barking up the wrong ladder.

Rusty

Rusty,

What E/SA Mustang might you be referring to? I only remember one at Indy in E, but it's wasn't the one that can run 10.00's in 3000 ft. of air. Care to elaborate on your scientific findings?

[Rusty2211]

Sorry..it was a 10.25 at 129 in E/SA a couple of years ago in 3000'

[Sean Cour]

That makes more sense. Rated at 285 back then, 312 now.

[RJ Sledge]

Larry

While you are figuring out all the frictional saving from the 2.200 journal from the 2.438 Ford journal, you also need to take into account that the Ford bearing is only .734 wide as compared to a Chev 2.200 bearing that measure .892 wide. Sounds to me like you not using all the pertinent info in your equation. By my figures it looks like there is 11% less drag with a Ford bearing for a 2.438 journal as compared to the Chev 2.200. Oh, my Crower rods are 6.488 in length and my pistons have the correct C/H number per NHRA.

With that said I think NHRA should take about 10 hp off the FE Crower rod Combo. How bout you???

RJ

Happy Thanksgiving

[SSDiv6]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

If a 400 "B" block is used in place of a "RB" 383, 413, 426, and 440 blocks the rod will be to short center to center and the compression height of the piston would be short. The rod and piston would be wrong.

Rods have a service life. I think NHRA should resend the use of "custom length" rod in Stock at the end of the 2014 season, for the FE Ford engine. If a racer has a new set of rods of "custom length" they will get two years service life from their investment.

NHRA has a chance to right a wrong that affects all of us that race stock. If you don't believe it affects all just think of this real life scenario.

Indy 2013 Stock. 180 entrants 128 qualifiers, what 52 cars can you out qualify? Lets say you are #129 and everyone is legal. Above you on the qualifying sheet are four FE Fords, all have the approved rod. All four are in bottom half of the field, just a few hundreds of a second in front of you. Part of the reason they are ahead of you is that every time the crank is turned from 2.437" to 2.200" the surface area of the original is approximately 10% bigger than the new finished size of 2.200. So if my math is correct the FE Fords have a 10% reduction in surface area and a big reduction in friction.

People who had a hand in getting the "Custom Length " rod approved by NHRA knew they were cheating the system. The worst thing they did was to cheat me and the other racers!

Larry,
The guys that ran this combination, had pistons with a shorter compression distance to compensate the deck difference. Like said before by others, if they had removed the rod and piston, they would have been caught.

...and by the way, this same discussion was brought up on this forum many times, including this posting...

http://classracer.com/classforum/showthread.php?t=8142

[CaptCobrajet]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

If a 400 "B" block is used in place of a "RB" 383, 413, 426, and 440 blocks the rod will be to short center to center and the compression height of the piston would be short. The rod and piston would be wrong.

Rods have a service life. I think NHRA should resend the use of "custom length" rod in Stock at the end of the 2014 season, for the FE Ford engine. If a racer has a new set of rods of "custom length" they will get two years service life from their investment.

NHRA has a chance to right a wrong that affects all of us that race stock. If you don't believe it affects all just think of this real life scenario.

Indy 2013 Stock. 180 entrants 128 qualifiers, what 52 cars can you out qualify? Lets say you are #129 and everyone is legal. Above you on the qualifying sheet are four FE Fords, all have the approved rod. All four are in bottom half of the field, just a few hundreds of a second in front of you. Part of the reason they are ahead of you is that every time the crank is turned from 2.437" to 2.200" the surface area of the original is approximately 10% bigger than the new finished size of 2.200. So if my math is correct the FE Fords have a 10% reduction in surface area and a big reduction in friction.

People who had a hand in getting the "Custom Length " rod approved by NHRA knew they were cheating the system. The worst thing they did was to cheat me and the other racers!

Time for a history lesson for Mr. Hill : I was the swinger who submitted the rod! I know what I sent. It was not a custom length. That language appeared in the Accepted List because the NHRA tech man who compiled the data for the rod list simply went to the Crower catalog and copied what was in the Crower catalog, just like he did for all of the combos. I know who did it, and it was done that way because it was a massive gathering of info and he did not have time to verify every demension that was not right there in the catalog. The part number that was used says "specify" in the Crower book, but the rod I sent NHRA, in the same box with a OEM rod, was 6.490, just like the Ford rod. The sole reason for the 2.200 journal was the fact that NHRA approved the Accucrank crankshaft for 428's in Super Stock only at that time, and there was no rod for the accepted crank, which WAS accepted with a 2.2 rod pin. At that time, there were NO rods for Stockers!!! When NHRA approved the rod for SS at that time, it was approved for all FE's.......not just 428's, but that was all we asked for at the time. FAST FORWARD.......several years later, Stockers got the rod list for SS. I called NHRA and confirmed that the rods on the list were legal for Stock...........twice! FAST FORWARD another year or two..............two Shelbys go to teardown at Indy and have the pans pulled off. The rods were checked, and were deemed LEGAL, because the rods are on the list. That confirmed the fact that this was legal.

NOBODY was "cheating" when the crank got submitted. I was not "cheating" when I submitted the rod...........I was trying to cover my own butt so my junk would not be illegal! NHRA gave the rod to all FE's in SS, and then later gave it to FE's in Stock. Nothing underhanded took place. It was all in the open and straightforward. Sorry if it pissed in your Wheaties, but that's the way it happened, and like RJ said, the barn door has been open on it for YEARS. NHRA is not going to tell racers "oops, you can't use rods anymore that you have used for years, because Larry Hill is pissed".

When I sent the rod, I sent it in a box WITH a Ford rod right beside it. If they would have said no, it might be different, but they did not. Ford FE's were fast way before any kind of rods were approved. Do they live better? YES. Are they any faster? No. On the bearing surface issue, the FE has no chamfer, and is .730 wide. The 2.200 "HN" bearings are .830 wide. Do some of your math on the surface area, and you will see that there is not much difference between 2.378 (.060 under) at .730 bearing width, and 2.200 at .830 bearing width. The performance difference is not measurable, but it is a good excuse if you can't run with it, to say that the reason some Ford is fast is because of that "bogus" rod. It might be because some of us get up early and go to bed late to make our LEGAL junk go fast.

Happy Thanksgiving!

Blair Patrick

[CaptCobrajet]

RJ, you should get a hold of a set of those super trick Clevite "HN" bearings. I hear there is HUGE POWER in that .062 in width you are giving up there!! That should put you two car lengths ahead of Jeff Tueton's new car! LOL. Man, I hope we get those Honda rods soon!