GM Releases 2013 bogus HP ratings at PRI show

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

Bruce I work full time as a reginal sale manager for THI Corp out of Ann Arbor Mi which makes pick up truck accessories like bedrugs and tonnos. I do help my dad on our family farm with whatever time I have left and maybe race cars now and then if Karle doesn't have other plans for me.

That is my point Andrews car is 30 years old and your car is one of the fastest D/SA cars in the country. Because you work on it and spend money in the right places and with the right people.

I'm just saying there's plenty of time to complain along with working on our cars. Bruce's car has been 10.0s in A, not long ago that was really, really fast. I think it's fair to say he works on his car a bunch, and I bet it will be even faster next year.

Without all these, um, "discussions", what would we do to get through the winter?

[Bruce Noland]

Andrew, to avoid any confusion, my post above was for Charley. I have edited it by adding his name.

[Charley Downing]

It's funny Bruce 8 to 10 years ago you had a I/SA car that was a little under factored. You traveled the county beating people easily for class. Funny you never complained about HP back then. That's right you were winning then and now your not. Thats the difference.

Also Bruce if my dad wanted to finance myself or my brothers racing while we were in college that was his choice. If you can afford to help your kids out more power to you. I know I could not have afforded it 4 years ago. I bet Andrew feels the same way.

How many new cars fit into D/SA? I think that is a class dominated by old 1960's combos

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

Also Bruce if my dad wanted to finance myself or my brothers racing while we were in collage that was his choice. If you can afford to help your kids out more power to you. I know I could not have afforded it 4 years ago. I bet Andrew feels the same way.

I do agree with that, I couldn't race without my dad at this point in my life.

How many new cars fit into D/SA? I think that is a class dominated by old 1960's combos

The 352/363 Mustangs and the 360 Challengers, and it sounds like maybe a motor for a COPO. There is one 360 Challenger in division 3, and both of the 352 Mustangs I know of are out west, but that doesn't make them any less underfactored.

[Charley Downing]

Andrew someone who gets beat by you heads up in D/SA could make the same argument( that you are under factored). So who decides what under factored is?

At the end of the day who won class in D/SA at Indy.

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

Andrew someone who gets beat by you heads up in D/SA could make the same argument( that you are under factored). So who decides what under factored is?

Of course they can, but last year I lost twice in class or heads up, once to a 400 Pontiac and once to a 396/325. I don't think anyone out there believes I can go 1.70+ under like the 352 mustangs could go. Here's a quote from one for sale:

"The 2010 352 was never a passenger car motor. It was developed with race only parts and is more like a Super Stock motor.

Boss 302 Block (compare that to a short deck Bowtie block)
Aluminum High Port CNC’D Heads
Aluminum Intake Manifold (made by Edelbrock for Ford Racing)
Solid Roller Camshaft (LSM)
Crower Severe Duty Roller Lifters
Jesel Pro Series Shaft Mounted Rockers
Custom Diamond Pistons
Scat Pro Stock Forged 4340 I Beam Connecting Rods
Scat Forged 4340 Crankshaft
MSD Crank Trigger
Fabricated Deep Sump Oil Pan"

A motor with all that is rated 13 less than mine. There are plenty of older motors that are underfactored, but none even in the same zip code as this.

[MikeFicacci]

I'm a second generation racer myself and much of my father's contribution to my racing has been in sheer knowledge and tow vehicles. I would never have gotten into the sport without the help of my father and my brothers. Bruce, shame on you for repeatedly giving people crap because they have gotten help along the way. This is supposed to be a racing community and I understand that its winter and some people have nothing else better to do but making personal attacks against the younger generation because you feel NHRA has slighted you in some way, is childish. We're all just trying to have fun here at the drag strip and your negativity is toxic. I ran more races with my Corvette this year and last than you did with yours. I had 9 heads in the last two years and lost 2 of them (both of which were at Indy). I think its time for this Topic to die as the personal attacks are starting to get ridiculous.

[RULER]

Really.... how do you decide whats under rated, LOOK AT THE SPEC. ON THESE NEW ENGINE COMBO'S COMPARED TO THE OLD STUFF, JUST NOT THAT HARD TO DO!!!!!!!

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by MikeFicacci

I'm a second generation racer myself and much of my father's contribution to my racing has been in sheer knowledge and tow vehicles. I would never have gotten into the sport without the help of my father and my brothers. Bruce, shame on you for repeatedly giving people crap because they have gotten help along the way. This is supposed to be a racing community and I understand that its winter and some people have nothing else better to do but making personal attacks against the younger generation because you feel NHRA has slighted you in some way, is childish. We're all just trying to have fun here at the drag strip and your negativity is toxic. I ran more races with my Corvette this year and last than you did with yours. I had 9 heads in the last two years and lost 2 of them (both of which were at Indy). I think its time for this Topic to die as the personal attacks are starting to get ridiculous.

Shame on me? Who are you to be telling me that BS? Racing community? Repeatedly giving people crap for getting help along the way? You certainly have become an important little fellow. You don't dictate the terms of discussion out here. What nerve! I have not repeatedly beat on anybody for getting help along the way. I made it very clear that I did not like being told how to invest in my car by a person who was getting a free ride. The free ride thing must have struck a nerve for you. One other thing, this racing communtiy is tired of being taken advantage of by people who run these ringer cars down our throats. I remember you at SEMA fuming about these new cars and the next thing we know you are hooked up with the new cars and have completely changed your tune. It is you and people like you who are taking advantage of the racing community, not me. And there is no way in hell that your little a** is going to tell me to shut up.

[D.Johns]

Wow, now things are getting ugly in here.

I'm out