Class Nationals event planning

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by Larry Hill

How about all class winners get to play in the "Shoot Out". Sorry Jeff but above the Ohio River 'shoot' is spelled with a S, south the river both the C and the S may be used.

Based on the SportsNationals stats, if you're around 100 cars per category, you've got almost 50 class winners each (given the additional classes we'll be handling, and no 'Combo' classes... That's about $3K in trophies right there!) We have to run qualifying and Class for some potentially large fields. Including all winners in the King of the Hill CIC would mean an *additional* 6 round race for each class, adding 4 hours of run time to the event. Plus, having 100 people involved in the shootout, a lot of people would be running their cars for no additional money. My hope is that with 8-16 car fields, we can muster up the sponsorship to reward some folks. The racing is likely to be closer, and having to qualify on your Class-winning run will mean some all-out racing.

Based on this year's Northern SportsNationals at Columbus, the Stock Quick 16 would look like this: (I left in their original qualifying positions, took into account having the new classes, old indexes, and not having Combo class)


1 8 3610 B/SA Leonard Mattingly, Cox Creek KY, '00 Fire 10.046 11.55 -1.504
2 2 8 A/FXA Bo Butner, Floyds Knobs IN, '12 Mustang 9.814 11.30 -1.486
3 1 24 R/SA Jim Marshall, Indian Land SC, '81 Corvette 12.886 14.35 -1.464
4 20 3578 C/SA Chris Mattingly, Shepherdsville KY, '01 F 10.253 11.70 -1.447
5 17 3540 I/FX Charles Downing, Britton MI, '10 Cobra Jet 11.061 12.50 -1.439
6 16 18 I/SA Steve Szupka, Willow Grove PA, '85 Camaro 11.254 12.60 -1.346
7 29 3340 G/SA Chuck Beach, Delaware OH, '68 Barracuda 10.959 12.30 -1.341
8 4 1707 CC/FXA Jim Boburka, Corapolis PA, '12 Camaro 9.571 10.90 -1.329
9 5 1574 AA/SA Frank Maiolo, Mt Vernon NY, '69 Camaro 8.974 10.30 -1.326
10 15 3608 K/S Bill Sempsrott, Franklin OH, '66 Nova 11.585 12.85 -1.265
11 12 353 A/S Caleb McFarland, Manchester OH, '01 Fireb 9.999 11.25 -1.251
12 31 1504 H/SA George Yago Jr., Jefferson Hills PA, '87 11.201 12.45 -1.249
13 13 3240 O/SA Bob Michael, Lebanon OH, '62 Grand Prix 12.202 13.45 -1.248
14 22 3360 N/SA Steve Sullivan, West Chester OH, '88 Must 12.058 13.30 -1.242
15 41 3040 J/SA Rob Holmes, Dayton OH, '77 Firebird 11.520 12.75 -1.230
16 18 3492 G/S Donnie Beeler, Elizabethtown KY, '91 Corv 10.981 12.20 -1.219

I think a 16-car field gives you a variety of cars, a guy qualified as low as 41st getting in the show (The USCN Quick 32 winning car I believe, it's worth noting!), a 4 round race so the CIC has a little bit of time to work, and some decent racing. I haven't looked at SS yet, but based on this, I'm thinking -1.25 under would make sense for the CIC trigger?

Just my opinions. Keep those ideas coming, as talking through all the scenarios helps bring everything into focus, identify issues before they can occur, and figure out what's going to make the most sense.

[Michael Beard]

IHRA Crate Motor Stock
Permitted. Crate Motor indexes will be adjusted down one-tenth of a second (.10) to bring them generally in line with traditional Stocker indexes of the same weight break. (exception: A-B-C/FCM indexes will remain the same, as they are already .25 lower than the regular CM index of the same weight break)

[ALMACK]

Michael;
Would IHRA Pure Stock and Stock GT run the normal IHRA indexes ?

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by ALMACK

Michael;
Would IHRA Pure Stock and Stock GT run the normal IHRA indexes ?

I'll have to study them a little deeper and do some consulting, but at first glance, they look ok to me. It should go without saying that Pure Stock means Pure Stock rules, by the book. A Stocker showing up with mufflers ain't gonna fly. Any Pure Stock, Stock GT, Crate Motor or SS/Production car that is not a regular on the IHRA circuit should expect a closer look in tech.

[Michael Beard]

Here's what the Super Stock Quick 16 would've looked like from the Northern SportsNationals...

1 10 3573 GT/MA John Stock, Sandusky OH, '92 Cutlass 10.550 12.05 -1.500
2 7 3032 SS/GS Tim Kish, Kalamazoo MI, '99 Neon 12.661 14.15 -1.489
3 35 3388 GT/DA Mark Nowicki, Gaylord MI, '98 Avenger 9.361 10.80 -1.439
4 1 107 SS/AS Wes Leopold, Bridgeville PA, '93 Daytona 8.481 9.90 -1.419
5 2 1108 SS/EA Gary Richard, Bay Shore NY, '10 Mustang 9.235 10.65 -1.415
6 3 3176 GT/FA Dave Layer, Dayton OH, '08 Cobalt 9.695 11.10 -1.405
7 4 315 SS/B Ray Paquet, Holt MI, '64 Fairlane 8.817 10.20 -1.383
8 8 1197 GT/A James Evanuik, N. Versailles PA, '98 Esco 8.929 10.30 -1.371
9 12 39 GT/AA Rock Haas, White Lake MI, '08 Mustang 9.040 10.40 -1.360
10 23 327 GT/IA Chad Taylor, Sellersburg IN, '88 Camaro 10.143 11.50 -1.357
11 5 5035 SS/JA Keith Lynch, Greenville OH, '09 Challenger 9.949 11.30 -1.351
12 6 3530 SS/KA Dave Dupps Jr., Germantown OH, '85 Camaro 10.203 11.55 -1.347
13 13 3122 SS/IA Joey Wilkes, Zanesville OH, '09 Cobalt 9.658 11.00 -1.342
14 9 3858 SS/F Dan Jacobs, Elizabeth IN, '67 Chevy II 9.367 10.65 -1.283
15 36 3614 GT/CA Matt Alvey, Mt. Washington KY, '05 Sunfire 9.422 10.70 -1.278
16 14 391 GT/BA Irvin Johns, Charlestown IN, '08 Cobalt 9.294 10.55 -1.256

Again, my idea is to use Class Winners only, qualified based off of their Class Final Round E.T. only. Not going to take the time to double-check this one... just used as an example of what it would potentially look like. The idea is to get people to run it out in Class to try to get in the CIC shootout. Quick 16 here is a little closer than the Stock example, less than .25.

A -1.25 trigger looked like it made some semblance of sense for Stock, whereas in SS, everybody's likely to get tagged the first round. Should the trigger be higher, lower, or based on either the #8's or #16's qualifying run? What's going to create the most competitive racing? Need some input.

[Michael Beard]

I found the rules for the "American Muscle" or "Factory Stock" deal they did at the Dutch Classic this year. How did this work out, and does it make more sense than doing an "FX" designation for all 'new' cars? What new combos have or will come in since that race, and/or what adjustments would need made?

http://www.nhradiv1.com/content/divnews.asp?articleid=52429&zoneid=12

As for any topic, you're certainly welcome to post here, send me a PM, Facebook message, call, text, etc., but if e-mailing beard@staginglight.com with comments, questions, or suggestions, please put "Class Nationals" in the subject line, as that account receives a lot of junk mail, and I don't want to miss your note.

[Ellis V. Buth]

I look forward to this event, and already have it marked on my calendar as a probable for 2014. I was not old enough to drive when the first Class Nationals took place, but I have heard tons of positives from that race.

Hopefully I can be there with a stocker and my bracket car...looks like a packed weekend! Thanks for taking on the challenge Michael, and I hope to see this event be successful for you and all involved!

[Ian Hill]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

IHRA Crate Motor Stock
Permitted. Crate Motor indexes will be adjusted down one-tenth of a second (.10) to bring them generally in line with traditional Stocker indexes of the same weight break. (exception: A-B-C/FCM indexes will remain the same, as they are already .25 lower than the regular CM index of the same weight break)

ok, first off i own a crate motor car (f/cm 68 Camaro 350) and a super stock (gt/ga 82 Camaro 327)...just wanted to add that. but it doesn't alter my opinion.

I do plan on coming down to the race, the information you've been giving is super exciting!

I don't see why everyone is so worried about dropping the crate motor indexes or putting the new cars in classes of their own. The only reasons these cars are fast to their indexes is because the masses choose not to run them, therefore the indexes have not got hit as many times or as hard. Are you going to alter the index that the pick trucks in stock ran in at the US Nats last year? I know of one first gen Camaro running a natural SS class that rarely runs out the back door for fear of getting hit, is that class index going to adjusted? I believe there are a few threads on this site about racers choosing to lift at 1000ft. This all stems from racers being worried about getting their combo's hit. The new car indexes bogus or not were approved by NHRA. i haven't been alive long enough to know, but i would asume there was a time when a 68 Camaro 350/ glide stock ran 1 second or more under? then everyone got on that combo's wagon and killed the index. Look at the mid 90's mustang we ran against in SS/EA at Atco. 4 cars running 9.8- .90, my hurt 350 running 10.20's and the mustang running 9.5's? I know one other EA car that the owner has put everything he can into it and only ran a low 9.8 there. So will the mustang's factor be adjusted?

I'll the cat outta the bag here...i have a few collector cars and have been thinking of selling some to purchase a COPO. But with all the "put 'em in their own class BS" i has second thoughts! These car will sort themselves out just like the mid sixties Plymouth and Dodges did! Killer when they were new, but hit hard with index ever since.

I love bracket racing my $high dollar$ 327, and i'd love to get a number qualifier just as much as winning a national event class or eliminator, but these "adjusted" indexes make no sense to me. if the indexes needed adjusting the NHRA and/or IHRA would have already done it....and if you can't see it - i'd like to add, the new car indexes are there to support the growth of our class. Buy a new car, go to the races and win! Sounds like an easy win, win - compared to "hey lets corral those new cars..."

Sorry for the negative, everything else about your race looks great, but this atering of indexes deal, does nothing for me.

Ian

[Michael Beard]

I don't see why everyone is so worried about dropping the crate motor indexes or putting the new cars in classes of their own
...
these "adjusted" indexes make no sense to me.

.

A quick review of the difference between the existing class indexes between traditional Stock classes and Crate Motor class of the same weight break:

STOCK...Weight Break...Stock Index ... Crate Motor Index
A/SA ......8.00 to 8.49 .... 11.35 ............. E/CM .... 11.50
B/SA ......8.50 to 8.99 .... 11.55 ............ F/CM .... 11.65
C/SA ......9.00 to 9.49 .... 11.70 ........... G/CM .... 11.80
D/SA ......9.50 to 9.99 .... 11.85 ........... H/CM .... 11.95
E/SA....10.00 to 10.49 .... 12.00 ............ I/CM .... 12.10
F/SA....10.50 to 10.99 .... 12.15 ............ J/CM .... 12.25
G/SA ...11.00 to 11.49 .... 12.30 ........... K/CM .... 12.40
H/SA ...11.50 to 11.99 .... 12.45 ........... L/CM .... 12.55
I/SA ....12.00 to 12.49 .... 12.60 ........... M/CM .... 12.65

Crate motors certainly do not have any inherent deficiencies vs a traditional stocker. It is not a punitive measure, but a common sense one. I ran crate motor cars for nearly 10 years, and won numerous championships with them, so I am plenty familiar with them. These cars have been around a very long time, and IHRA has presumably made whatever changes it sees fit for their events. The Northern Class Nationals is an independent event.


Giving the 'new' cars (COPO, Cobra Jet, DragPak) their own class designations with their same weight break, HP, etc. will have no effect on them other than to have a different sticker on the window (which I will provide) and to separate them from 'traditional' Stockers in terms of heads-up runs. Since these combinations are still relatively new, I will defer to NHRA's AHFS adjustments, which will have another 10 months. I do not intend to alter HP factors or weight on any of them.

People should be able to come into the event without having to adjust weight to fit a particular class. The exception to that may be if a combination has a different HP factor between NHRA and IHRA, we will defer to the NHRA HP factor. Also, as mentioned earlier in this thread, Trucks and Fuel Injected cars will all run in their NHRA-designated classes (not separated as they are in IHRA).

I hope this clarifies not only 'what' we are doing, but 'why' we are doing it. We hope everyone can come out and enjoy a great, fun weekend of dedicated S/SS racing.

[Geerhead55]

"The Northern Class Nationals is an independent event." I'm thinking that's says it all right there, fellas. Once again,, thanks again Michael, for all your efforts,, I can't wait to go to this one, too. I'm hoping it'll be about 30 degrees cooler than Byron was back in '01.
Danny Durham