Stick car, too much clutch?

[69Cobra]

I also would look at the CW's but you really need some way of seeing some data. I used an Autometer 2 channel tach for the last 10 years and it worked great. Some times to good as it shows you just how bad of a driver you really are lol. Are you shifting with the pedal?

[Dinsdale]

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGTtrnq31So"]FE Fairmont - YouTube[/ame]

[69Cobra]

It looks like you already have a 2 channel tach. That should tell you right there. But in my opinion you do have way to much clutch for my liking on both the starting line and at the gear changes. Its bogging the motor down on the starting line and the one pass I heard it bark 4th LOL. But if its consistent and its not breaking anything yet run it. I know that if I was running that much clutch in my car it would be breaking stuff.

[Rory McNeil]

Well, it is pretty consistent, and in 12 years, the only real breakage has been knocking a few teeth off 3rd gear a few years ago. I need to pull the trans to fix an oil leak, so I guess I will remove the counterweight at that time. I never really used any counterweight before this clutch freshen up. My tach is a playback model, but it has no provisions for driveshaft RPM. I`d really be suprised if I have "way too much" clutch static though, as when I do encounter flare up on the 3-4, or noticable slippage in 4th, I can normally cure the slippage with 1/2 turn increase of static. And as I mentioned in the first post, rolling on the throttle on the return road at 2500-3000RPM will result in noticable slipping. I do normally shift it clutchless. One other thing I should add, don`t know if its really relevent or not, but Hyatt did the last clutch rebuild, and instead of the normal .280" disc McLeod supplies, Tim uses a .380" thick disc, and I have the pressure plate shimmed up .100" to compensate for the added thickness. And lastly Kris, since you also run a FE, have you had any issues with the pilot bearing "falling out" of the crankshaft? I use the ball bearing pilot, and it kinda sticks out of the crank a ways, and is not a very tight press fit, and has been found just sitting on the input shaft a couple of times . I last installed the pilot bearing with red Loctite, I`ll take a look when I pull the trans out in the near future.

From what I just read, if you remove the counter and don't add a few turns of base you will drive through the clutch in high gear.

One affects the other. You can mostlikely, take some more base adjustment out and it will soften the clutch durring the shifts. The CW no CW debate is very split. When you run counter, the base adjustment should be run on the soft side. When running enough counter, you will have a hard time driving through the clutch. When set up like this, you should lower the starting line RPM to soften the launch. Leaving where you shift at will produce the " Sledge Hammer Effect " because of the counter producing more clamp pressure on the disc. In the end you have to figure out what clutch management theory you subscribe to and go out and test.
Be sure you take a lot of notes durring testing. When you get some data from your results , you will be able to tailor your clutch to your needs and desires. That is the fun of this game.

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Well, it is pretty consistent, and in 12 years, the only real breakage has been knocking a few teeth off 3rd gear a few years ago. I need to pull the trans to fix an oil leak, so I guess I will remove the counterweight at that time. I never really used any counterweight before this clutch freshen up. My tach is a playback model, but it has no provisions for driveshaft RPM. I`d really be suprised if I have "way too much" clutch static though, as when I do encounter flare up on the 3-4, or noticable slippage in 4th, I can normally cure the slippage with 1/2 turn increase of static. And as I mentioned in the first post, rolling on the throttle on the return road at 2500-3000RPM will result in noticable slipping. I do normally shift it clutchless. One other thing I should add, don`t know if its really relevent or not, but Hyatt did the last clutch rebuild, and instead of the normal .280" disc McLeod supplies, Tim uses a .380" thick disc, and I have the pressure plate shimmed up .100" to compensate for the added thickness. And lastly Kris, since you also run a FE, have you had any issues with the pilot bearing "falling out" of the crankshaft? I use the ball bearing pilot, and it kinda sticks out of the crank a ways, and is not a very tight press fit, and has been found just sitting on the input shaft a couple of times . I last installed the pilot bearing with red Loctite, I`ll take a look when I pull the trans out in the near future.

[joespanova]

Put just enough base in it to launch the car , and throw in a little c'weight. Thats alI do.........I dont play around with c'weight , dont mess with base much either. Watching a playback tach can sometimes tell you if you need more weight as the needle will bounce around. With my Nash 5 speed , 23 degree 355 , at 3000 lbs Ive run 9.60s at 138 n change.........must not be that far off........but the bottom line is this , without a data logger and historical logs you're going to work yourself to death playing with that clutch.

I also want to add , my advice is for clutch assisted stuff.........and breakage? Rarely

[Troy Henderson]

Spend your money on a data logger you can tie into the input and life will be much easier. We used to tune our cars by feel and using a video camera but that's just frustrating with all the affordable technology out there now.

Soft Loks are great but if you're looking to upgrade and don't wan't to spend the coin on the Advanced stuff hit up the Comp Eliminator guys for some of their used stuff.

Shocks are critical on our small tire cars on leaf springs and may help you also depending on what you have but a ladder bar car isn't as violent.

[69Cobra]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

Well, it is pretty consistent, and in 12 years, the only real breakage has been knocking a few teeth off 3rd gear a few years ago. I need to pull the trans to fix an oil leak, so I guess I will remove the counterweight at that time. I never really used any counterweight before this clutch freshen up. My tach is a playback model, but it has no provisions for driveshaft RPM. I`d really be suprised if I have "way too much" clutch static though, as when I do encounter flare up on the 3-4, or noticable slippage in 4th, I can normally cure the slippage with 1/2 turn increase of static. And as I mentioned in the first post, rolling on the throttle on the return road at 2500-3000RPM will result in noticable slipping. I do normally shift it clutchless. One other thing I should add, don`t know if its really relevent or not, but Hyatt did the last clutch rebuild, and instead of the normal .280" disc McLeod supplies, Tim uses a .380" thick disc, and I have the pressure plate shimmed up .100" to compensate for the added thickness. And lastly Kris, since you also run a FE, have you had any issues with the pilot bearing "falling out" of the crankshaft? I use the ball bearing pilot, and it kinda sticks out of the crank a ways, and is not a very tight press fit, and has been found just sitting on the input shaft a couple of times . I last installed the pilot bearing with red Loctite, I`ll take a look when I pull the trans out in the near future.

Yes for some reason I've had the same issues with pilot bearings. Matter of fact the only "breakage" I've had on my jerico was from the pilot bearing coming out of the crank which let the input do whatever it wanted. It ended up breaking the back of the input where the snap ring goes and swelled the front bearing retainer to the point that I couldn't remove the tranny because it wouldn't slide out of the T.O. bearing. I was thinking about using some hi temp silicone to help hold it in their the next time. Let me know how the loc tite did for ya.

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by 69Cobra

Yes for some reason I've had the same issues with pilot bearings. Matter of fact the only "breakage" I've had on my jerico was from the pilot bearing coming out of the crank which let the input do whatever it wanted. It ended up breaking the back of the input where the snap ring goes and swelled the front bearing retainer to the point that I couldn't remove the tranny because it wouldn't slide out of the T.O. bearing. I was thinking about using some hi temp silicone to help hold it in their the next time. Let me know how the loc tite did for ya.

About 6 or 7 years ago, I had a very simillar experiance with my Fairmont. Unknown to me, I guess the pilot had fallen out for quite a while, and on 1 pass, when I pushed in the clutch pedal for 3rd gear, the engine started shaking terribly. I guess with the bearing not doing its job, the input shaft was free to move up and down, and eventually the disc cracked around the hub, and allowed the hub section to break away from the rest of the disc. The outer section got all caught up inside the scattershield, snapped off the starter nose cone, deformed the bellhousing, and like you, when I went to remove the trans, it only came part way out, because the bearing retainer had become bell mouthed, and wouldn`t allow the retainer to slip thru the throw out bearing. The bellhousing, and everything inside it were ruined.Not a pretty sight!

[69Cobra]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

About 6 or 7 years ago, I had a very simillar experiance with my Fairmont. Unknown to me, I guess the pilot had fallen out for quite a while, and on 1 pass, when I pushed in the clutch pedal for 3rd gear, the engine started shaking terribly. I guess with the bearing not doing its job, the input shaft was free to move up and down, and eventually the disc cracked around the hub, and allowed the hub section to break away from the rest of the disc. The outer section got all caught up inside the scattershield, snapped off the starter nose cone, deformed the bellhousing, and like you, when I went to remove the trans, it only came part way out, because the bearing retainer had become bell mouthed, and wouldn`t allow the retainer to slip thru the throw out bearing. The bellhousing, and everything inside it were ruined.Not a pretty sight!

Yep. All over a $2 part. I've even taken a flat chisel and scared up the inside of the crank to give it teeth so to speak and that still didn't keep it in there very tight. I'm going the silicone route next time.