What about STOCK ?

[Blingmaster]

If you really want to level the playing field turn off the reaction timers and 60 foot clocks...That has done more to make mediocre drivers in to Kings if that information not available how could they adjust...100 years ago when Smedley was young you had that Seat of the pants reaction timer you knew when you were late....DD

[Michael Beard]

Stockracer writes:
>> I would love for some of you to tell Fletch, Zane, Biondo, Stillings, Bertozzi, that they need to LEARN how to footbrake!

Actually, I personally invited one to come to the $50K. When I told him it was Footbrake, he was like, "I don't know, I haven't footbraked in a long time." I don't believe that meant he couldn't -- just didn't feel like it. I was shocked to not see some of them there except Zane.

Many argue that two-steps are no advantage, so we should continue to allow them. I think the same argument supports getting rid of them. There's really no reason to keep them, in my opinion.

Polls on the subject don't mean a lot. NHRA used a poll as a backwards way to support their decision to eliminate deep staging. "The majority of the racers didn't want deep staging." Using that logic, could the "majority of the racers" vote out trucks? front drivers? fuel injected cars? two-steps? vote in transbrakes?

And how do drivers that advocate two steps feel about deep staging?

The guys that advocate two steps argue that getting rid of them would make as much sense as getting rid of tachs, MSD's, shifters, etc. Such a rationale working in the opposite direction -- would that mean they wouldn't care if transbrakes were allowed? 4-wheel line locks? "Well, no, that's totally different" That's right - EVERY component is a totally separate issue unto itself.

I do disagree with Chip -- Although they'll have to adapt, I think that the top guys will still win just as much.... which further indicates to me that there's no need to have two steps in the first place.

* (exception being stick cars, in all instances above.)

>> If you really want to level the playing field turn off the reaction timers and 60 foot clocks...

I hear that pop up every once in a while. Au contraire - the best drivers would shine even more without that information, because they already know where they're at to begin with. The drivers that are lost would become even more lost. The best drivers are consistent enough to tweak the car to go red and then back it down, while the rest of the field wanders all over the tree. You could take away ALL of the incrementals, and the top echelon driver is still going to nail you .040 on the tree, carry a dime, wheel you at the stripe, and leave you wondering what happened. Not to hurt anyone's feelings, but that's just the reality of it.

[Casey Miles]

Stock can soon be Super Pro on 9" tires. Get all the electronics out of the formula.
Casey Miles
248H

[Harry 6674]

I've said it before and I always get burned but here goes. Do away with the shoe polish, this is supposed to be class racing not bracket racing. Run off the national record, have a CIC like comp. Reward the #1 qualifier and record setters. Its supposed to be a performance based eliminator. It used to be. Try it again. There a lot cheaper ways to bracket race. And do away with the electronics. Okay dialins let me have it.

[Jim Bailey]

My post was directed to Lenny and NHRA. Now that you guys have "admitted" that adjustable buttons have delay capibilties, and since delay devices are not allowed in Stock Elim. Are adjustable buttons considered delay devices?
Since only approved buttons will be allowed in Comp. and SS in 2008. Will only approved, non- adjustable,(non - delay) buttons be allowed as two step buttons in Stock Elim.?
Why not take it one step further.....At the Top of the Food Chain, ie Fuel Classes,(lol)..... the forward motion of the car must be done by the drivers feet, ie - The Bernstein Terrible Towel Rule of the 80s." And by all indications, Two Steps aren't going any where." Why don't you guys approve a spec, NON- Adjustable button for Stock Elim.. Then, mandate that the button be mounted on the brake or clutch pedal. It's not a completely level playing field, but, it's a start.
Don't get me wrong, my vote is for no buttons whatsoever. No buttons is way too easy to tech, and eliminates 80-90% chance of cheating. And why would we ever make it that easy.

[tgriffith]

something I find funny is,,, about a year or so ago,,,I was blasting the buttons in stock and the way they were used and why racers were favoring A-D cars and also the decline of slow cars,,,,IMO, the true essence of what stock is supposed to be about,,,,,its about the guy, out in his garage, building his own parts, cause they dont make stuff for chevettes,,,,,,,,,not the "store bought stocker" were you give some shop about 60k and you pick it up back from the western swing.....It was the majoritys opinion that I shoudl just shut up and race,,,,WOW,,,what a difference a year or so makes after seeing this stuff used correctly!!!

now Im the type of person that ,,,if I cant be competitive,,,Im not going to play,,,,,,and the fact is,,I cant compete with the 2 steps and buttons.....I dont intend to quit racing locally and they just dont allow any electronics,,,,,,,so I quit racing stock,,,just that simple.......there are exceptions to the rule such as Myron,,,Beard and a few others,,,but they are very few.......

I see after a year or so,,finally some of you understand just how and why they are using 2 steps and buttons...and also understand why most are wanting to go at least D or quicker,,,,,,It takes that to "pro tree race" a stocker,,,,,,,,,,so now ,,"it the buttons and 2 steps gotta go",,,,,,,well good for you guys,,,,It time to put nhra/ Ihra on the hot seat

Also,,if i understand the rest of the rules,,,,,isnt anything Illegal in a Superstocker also Illegal in a Stocker,,,,,,,do not the rules progress from illegal to legal the more of advanced class you run????

I had addressed this issue the the powers that be in both organizations 2 years ago and both were concerned but didnt know at that time exactly what was going to take place.....Ihra sealed the buttons but IMO,,that isnt enough......

Like chip,,,to my surprise,,there wasnt any of the killer guys at the 50k,,,,,excluding Zane and a few footbraker greats,,,,,I mean 10k, 50k and 10k for $675 is alot to pass up .....I really thought more of the stocker guys would show for this kind of money,,,but as stated before "no buttons" was the rule

[Boo]

Take deepstaging away....same drivers still win.
Take Buttons away, same drivers still win, probably more so. A button may make a good driver better but it also makes a bad driver decent..... kind of like a delay box, it somewhat evens it up a little bit.

Chip, Beard etc, you guys should realize best that most of the best stock racers (bertozzi, biondo, fletcher) grew up and dominated footbraking. Look at some of the archives at the local tracks and look at some of the reaction times of these guys going off the footbrake.

The fact is those big footbrake races (with buybacks) are more rounds and less money to win (after splits) than winning a national event. Even the BIGESST footbrake race EVER which took place on sunday which was won by Scotty Richardson, paid him $22,000 after the splits while on the same day Peter Biondo and Brad Plourd were winnning a national event worth $16,000 in california going off the same bottom yellow. Now take the double buyback 10k or 20k footbrake races which end up going 9 or 10 rounds and only paying 8k to 12k after splits and you do the math.

I am not taking anything away from the footbrake races as they are great but after you do the math and splits, they aren't as worth going to as the flyers show.

[tgriffith]

Boo, the problem I have with the buttons and 2 steps is that it makes a larger gap between the faster cars and slower cars on the competitive side of adjustability on RT`s....and true,,,same drivers will probably win and thats ok,,,rite now,,more shots on the tree is so important at the national level or any level,,,and stock has become a pro tree race,,,, In all other motorsports, rules are put in place to keep things on a level playing field and Ihra/Nhra has overlooked this issue for a while in stock

as far as Richardson or any other racer, as far as the 50k ,,,,the purse was paid,,,what drivers tend to do with there share isnt part of the program,,,,anyone of the final 8 could have said "no" and that would have been done,,,they chose to make it profitable for the final 8,,,,which is something you dont see in stock,,,,everyone looses that isnt in the finals,,,and Ive been to a few that even the R-ups just got even for the weekend...there was one round of buybacks and thats it

I may be wrong,, unless he worked a deal in the finals with luke,,,but I thought it was 30k to the winner,,,,Im rather sure him and luke are good friends so they might have worked a deal in the finals....I also do know for a FACT that a few had gotten entrys and when it was determined that under no circumstance would buttons be allowed AND tech was going to be tough,,,either sold or got refunds,,,,maybe a scheduling conflict or who knows,,,but what remains a fact is the best non electronic race in history took place and alot of big names wasnt there.....

[tgriffith]

if im remembering correctly,,,in the 50k ,,the deal at 8 was ,,,,,1/4`s got 2k plus round money,,,,,semi`s got 3k plus round money ,,,r-up got 18k and winner got 30k,,,,,,,, again,,Im rather sure that was the deal at 8,,,never did ask scotty the deal in the finals,,,,,alot of times,,racers like to keep that personal,,,

[Lynn A McCarty]

Has S/SS really changed that much? How much did it cost in todays dollars, for Pontiac, Ford, Chevrolet, or Chrysler to "show up" at Indy with special "approved" cars and parts like they did in the 60's? How could the average racer compete with the factory stockers back then?

A reprint of: Pontiac Muscle Car Performance, by Pete McCarthy (page 109) (see www.petemccarthy.com)

[...trouble was lurking in Detroit. Chevy released the 409, and Mopar was thinking about stuffing a full race 413 into the light Dodge and Plymouth bodies. Ford released the 406 in a stripped body shell. Just before the US Nationals drag race meet on Labor Day weekend in 1961, Pontiac stuck it to Ford and Chevy by announcing the "availability" of a new 421 SD package. According to Malcolm McKellar, the "availability" consisted of about a dozen engines shipped in pieces to Mickey Thompson, Arnie Beswick and a few others.

It was rated at a ridiculous 373 HP, a scant five horsepower increase of the 1961 389 SD engine. Hayden Proffitt, Mickey Thompson's driver, simply annihilated the competition in the new "Optional" Super Stock Class.

Shortly thereafter, NHRA officials put a stop to this type of factory sandbagging, and decreed that henceforward all Super Stock must be factory assembled and in the hands of the general public.

At this juncture, Pontiac announce the availability of the 389 SD and the 421 SD "Special Purpose" vehicles, and the fun soon began.]

Just food for thought.

Lynn