Hemi Head Ruling

[jaythorne]

Today's intakes are tunnel rams with offset carbs.... Crossrams have crossed runners

[David Barton]

Originally Posted by jaythorne

Today's intakes are tunnel rams with offset carbs.... Crossrams have crossed runners

Hi Jay, thanks for the reminder. This is another great experience I had with NHRA's BS. I drove 3000 miles to Mission, BC to fight Harry Holton for the SS/AA record. By the way, it was an awesome experience. Definitely one of the best trips, great air, great track, great people out there.

We came to find out that NHRA was letting Holton put his carbs inline. He set the record that way. To make a long story short, we made our own version as soon as we got home. I went to the next race which was the Englishtown National Event, and was thrown out of tech by Bob Lang. I told Bob I agreed it was bogus, but the West coast gang was running the exact same setup and set a record. He said, "Not in my division".

Guess what happened next. They made a rule change after the race. Then it eventually turned into a tunnel ram. I don't blame Bob, he knew what the rules were and tried to enforce them, but was eventually overruled.

[jaythorne]

Didn't baughman set a record with an inline first?...been a long time ago my memory may be foggy

[Jared Jordan]

We definitely weren't the first to run an inline. Bob Jenkins had one on their Dart long before the Ogburn/WCH days. Can't speak for Baughman.

Personally, I hate the tunnel rams. Wasn't a fan of bringing the carbs inline either. I realize rule changes help make them faster. If builders didn't "innovate," the cars might still be in the 10's. I guess I just like the idea of pulling the hood on an SS car and seeing something that resembles the factory piece beyond the valve covers.

BTW, David, that manifold you're referring to is still at the shop. I can send you a pic if you feel like waxing nostalgic. Lol

[wendell howes]

David The way this started was we asked NHRA if we could cut into the bolt holes at the vavle covers surface and they said no no no.They did not say this was for Barton only so I thought it was for all AH cars.One year late we are here.

[Spyphish]

Originally Posted by David Barton

Hi Jay, thanks for the reminder. This is another great experience I had with NHRA's BS. I drove 3000 miles to Mission, BC to fight Harry Holton for the SS/AA record. By the way, it was an awesome experience. Definitely one of the best trips, great air, great track, great people out there.

We came to find out that NHRA was letting Holton put his carbs inline.

Since we are reminiscing about Hemi stories, I will never forget my 2nd Indy two years ago. I was a rookie with a fairly fast car (R&M’s 1st attempt), number six Q I think behind the Hatfield & McCoy team cars. I went red in round two against a young “Top Gun” driver for the McCoys. I was actually faster than him on that run. That’s why I support the win on a red light rule mentioned in the first post. He was Maverick and Ice Man all rolled into one. The Hatfield cars had left the night before as gravity had relocated their #1 intake valves to unwelcome areas of their motors. So I just watched in awe as the young driver mowed down one side of the ladder while their other McCoy team car “took care of business” on the other side. They were destined to be in the final. The young man was rapidly becoming my idol and hopefully my mentor one day. Then right before the semis a small riot seemed to be starting at his rig. I scurried over to see what was happening. Someone shouted “Where the heck did he get that tall hood scoop, from the movie CARS??” The young man calmly said “Fellas, fellas wait just a minute.” He moseyed (we mosey in the South), he moseyed into the stacker and came out with ANOTHER (YES ANOTHER) perfectly painted matching hood with a legal 4 inch scoop to CALM the masses and finish the race. NHRA said NOProblemO. WOW! I had heard stories of an old hemi car in the Northeast called “Two Scoop Lido” but I was standing in the presence of none other than TWO SCOOP DAVE. Man, I would be honored to pay to letter that on his many famous cars. I asked my car builder John why I didn’t have two hoods? Did everyone go to Indy with two hoods?? “NOPE, not needed if you have the correct 4” scoop” he said .
Now on a serious note Two Scoop, you “kicked this skunk” starting this “holier than thou” thread calling people cheaters. I have never seen Charlie or his Dad changing hoods in a race. Their arbor was somewhat hidden. My chrome bolts were not as this was a car show and a drag race broke out. As for me, I have my cheater letter and ya’ll can call me “Screwhead Steve”. Welcome to the fraternity.
PS: I do respect you going to work every day in the family business to provide for your beautiful young family. Just stay off the internet when you’re in a glass house. Stephen

PS 2 Larry, that's my color...

[SSDA Hemi]

Two scoop Lido! That's some funny stuff right there!!

BUT- this story only reinforces David's allegations! If he was in a glass house he would've finished the race with the tall scoop and the following week an addendum to the rules added allowing tall scoops,

I'm all for tickling the rule right to the legal limit. But this 1/2 Hemi head stuff just doesn't do it for me

[jaythorne]

RPM is the killer here....i may be wrong but if the intake rule had been enforced then the need for such crazy head flow would ouf been lesser..
wonder what the cars would be running if we went back to real crossrams...and would it affect the rpms that seem to be the norm now??? david???charlie???....need a rule like farm boy pullin tractors have???rpm telltale ...limit to 8800

[David Barton]

Originally Posted by Spyphish

Since we are reminiscing about Hemi stories, I will never forget my 2nd Indy two years ago. I was a rookie with a fairly fast car (R&M’s 1st attempt), number six Q I think behind the Hatfield & McCoy team cars. I went red in round two against a young “Top Gun” driver for the McCoys. I was actually faster than him on that run. That’s why I support the win on a red light rule mentioned in the first post. He was Maverick and Ice Man all rolled into one. The Hatfield cars had left the night before as gravity had relocated their #1 intake valves to unwelcome areas of their motors. So I just watched in awe as the young driver mowed down one side of the ladder while their other McCoy team car “took care of business” on the other side. They were destined to be in the final. The young man was rapidly becoming my idol and hopefully my mentor one day. Then right before the semis a small riot seemed to be starting at his rig. I scurried over to see what was happening. Someone shouted “Where the heck did he get that tall hood scoop, from the movie CARS??” The young man calmly said “Fellas, fellas wait just a minute.” He moseyed (we mosey in the South), he moseyed into the stacker and came out with ANOTHER (YES ANOTHER) perfectly painted matching hood with a legal 4 inch scoop to CALM the masses and finish the race. NHRA said NOProblemO. WOW! I had heard stories of an old hemi car in the Northeast called “Two Scoop Lido” but I was standing in the presence of none other than TWO SCOOP DAVE. Man, I would be honored to pay to letter that on his many famous cars. I asked my car builder John why I didn’t have two hoods? Did everyone go to Indy with two hoods?? “NOPE, not needed if you have the correct 4” scoop” he said .
Now on a serious note Two Scoop, you “kicked this skunk” starting this “holier than thou” thread calling people cheaters. I have never seen Charlie or his Dad changing hoods in a race. Their arbor was somewhat hidden. My chrome bolts were not as this was a car show and a drag race broke out. As for me, I have my cheater letter and ya’ll can call me “Screwhead Steve”. Welcome to the fraternity.
PS: I do respect you going to work every day in the family business to provide for your beautiful young family. Just stay off the internet when you’re in a glass house. Stephen

Stephen, nice story. You lost me in a few places but I get the gist of it. The only problem is your facts are distorted.

#1 - Your dates are mixed up. It wasn't the year the Westcott's left. It was 2009. How do I know that? Because I raced Westcott Sr in the final and I'll never forget how the car died when I floored it. It was also the last time I saw Paul Wilson, who really made a big deal about this whole hood scoop thing. Which I was completely fine with because it was bringing some excitement into the pits. I believe Bales was pretty fired up about it as well.

#2 - The other big hole in your story is the fact about the hood scoop. The whole idea behind the different hood was to see how narrow we could make the scoop, not how tall. The whole idea was to grab less air. Going taller is the opposite of what we were trying to accomplish. You really think I'd be dumb enough to try going taller? That was tried way before you came along. I'd have to say the craziest one I ever saw was the one Sid Bonnecarre had on Teuton's Dart. I'm sure it was more to prove a point.

Last I checked there was no rule stating how narrow the hood could be. Since I've been racing I've seen NHRA measure those hoods every way possible but they fail to put in writing just how big or small they should be.

Anyway, somebody noticed mine looked different. After 3rd round Bruce asked me what the big hype was about the hood. I told him ours was narrowed a little bit. I asked him how narrow it was supposed to be and he had no answer. He then asked if I had another hood. I told him yes. He then asked if I can replace it to get everyone off his back. Out of respect I said no problem. I figured if everyone was so fired up about it, I better not win the race with it. And by that point I felt it was no gain anyway.

Can't we just be friends, Stephen? I don't like when we fight like this.

[killintime6968]

This all reminds me of the 70's pro stock twist/tweak of the heads and rules of the week. Then again in 90's with PST. If it still had OEM part numbers then it must be legal. LOL