Stock by class

[stockracer]

Alan...Being as I wasnt there, and only have second hand info, your could be right...But from the way that arts car/cars are described to me...It was my assumption, based on appearance and et that to build a car of this caliber, 200,000 wasnt a bad guess...I mean if you have to spend 100,000 on a cavalier that runs a small block GT class, whats a big block muscle car cost to build? It was only my assumption...

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by stockracer

Alan...Being as I wasnt there, and only have second hand info, your could be right...But from the way that arts car/cars are described to me...It was my assumption, based on appearance and et that to build a car of this caliber, 200,000 wasnt a bad guess...I mean if you have to spend 100,000 on a cavalier that runs a small block GT class, whats a big block muscle car cost to build? It was only my assumption...

You didn't read my post. I said there weren't any $200K cars in TOP STOCK. I did not mention TOP SUPER STOCK.

There probably aren't ANY of the really fast cars in SUPER STOCK, capable of running Top SUPER STOCK that are not VERY expensive. Art's cars, that were in Top Super Stock, are both Corvettes, and sure, they're expensive. So was the Mopar that won. Any A, B, C, or really, even D class car is going to be expensive.

Still, the crowd loved BOTH Top Super Stock AND Top Stock, and the fast cars in Top Stock were generally under $50K. The guys who raced it had a blast. For a race with a VERY weak turnout, due as much to a holiday weekend, the two classes did well. It should be VERY obvious to anyone who is actually paying attention, and has any real knowledge, that the Top Stock and Top Super Stock program is VERY good for sportsman racers, look at the class car count in Division 1.

And the way the two classes are to be run, they do not take anything away from Stock OR Super Stock. They are bonus races. Not one thin dime of money is taken from the regular classes, none. They (the other Stock and Super Stock cars)do not get shorted a time trial either. Or a parking space. And since the cars running Top Stock and Top Super Stock have to run "on kill" in order to win, they aren't getting an EXTRA time shot either. Trust me, I was there, and working on a Top Stock car, AND I put my money where my mouth is and put up money towards the purse. We WORKED to run Top Stock, every single qualifying shot, and it didn't do a thing for our regular program. We just had fun running an extra race and trying to go fast with no breakout.

[stockracer]

Alan...I was refering to top/ss, guess I should have clarified. But, whats the price for a winning top/stock car...Not just a car that enters, makes a few passes, but a car that will win? My whole point is that you cant save the sport with cars that only 10% of the people can afford to run. Of course most superstock guys could sell there stuff and buy a A/SA camaro and run heads up, but top/ss is only feasible for a few. From what I understand that jr. stock class in D-1 was pretty cool, more realistic, more people can run with average cars...I think maybe smith won in the fox body, and youve got camaros, corvettes, and basically any e-f-g-h-i cars running. And I would be willin to bet that to build a car that will run 10.30's (wj) in the weather yall had, to buy motor, trans, car, evrything would prolly be around 80,000 or more...How far off am I?

[Dick Butler]

I know someone will always be able to find fault if thats their goal. Unfortunately it can be and IS expensive to race NHRA class and Drag Racing in general. It is not really a place for everyone to run and many should not try whose budget should include food, clothing and shelter first. It adds a goal us to work harder, advance and earn enough to be competitive and someday a winner.
Week end bracket racing is a good starting place and many try that first as motor and chassis rules are non existant except safety. Many prefer this level.
IF someone desires to step up and can afford what it requires to compete they CAN join NHRA Points meets , Opens and Nationals. When the cost is too much then they can always return to Bracket racing week ends but their desire to race and their budget to race at NHRA events cannot be used as a reason to limit the racing in the organization.
Lower class racers which think they want more Heads up racing can always ASK for it .
AH was developed by racers in the class then supported by MOPAR. TOP/SS and TOP/STK were started by racers in these classes.
With input, others can be represented also. Jr/STK is coming next if requested.

[stockracer]

Dick Im not looking for a fault in your idea...Im tryin to include more people. I do like seeing this kinda racing where people race for pride in their work! My last few post were to prove a point on cost, alan doesnt believe me or looks for faults in my comments for some reason...

[Dick Butler]

Stockracer, My whole goal is give EVERYONE a chance to enjoy more class racing. First TOP/SS and TOP/STK to get some racers involved and then expand as fast as supported. Jr. Stock next to parallel Div 1.
If racers enjoy this racing more often during the year than just a rare National maybe NHRA will pick up the idea. Maybe they will offer it more often.
Maybe lower class cars will want it too.
As the idea returns that heads up is fun to do more often maybe combining classes will occur which will add even more of this racing. Combined classes MEANS more cars /class and that is more heads up racing everywhere. Like you said pride to win class again.
Maybe the "SHOW" value of S and SS will pick up and we will get advertised so paying spectators can support more races and sponsors can use S and SS again to sell their products at MORE meets.
A big dream project but together with our common enjoyment of class racing we CAN save this kind of racing and have fun doing it.
Thanks for your comments and please help if you enjoy the idea of Class racing S and SS style.
Dick

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by stockracer

Dick Im not looking for a fault in your idea...Im tryin to include more people. I do like seeing this kinda racing where people race for pride in their work! My last few post were to prove a point on cost, alan doesnt believe me or looks for faults in my comments for some reason...

If you HAVE to BUY EVERYTHING, then it costs about as much to run G as it does A. If you BUY EVERYTHING, what work do you have pride in? Your phone skills?

The reason I said what I said is because Top Stock DOES work, racers DO like it, and so do FANS.Top Super Stock works too. The cars are already there. Art already had his cars. Depillo already had his. It gives the guys who can't run SS/AH a chance to have the same fun those guys have at Dutch or at Indy.

The problem with your position is that you want something that can't be done. You CAN'T include EVERYONE. About 4 classes is as much as you can combine. And that is a stretch.

No one said we didn't want Jr. Stock too. But we have to START somewhere. So we chose Top Stock and Top Super Stock. Further, you can't just post on an Internet bulletin board and expect things to happen. You have to actually DO SOMETHING. Well, no one else is, so a few of us are trying to do something.

There's NOTHING stopping someone from putting together a Jr. Stock program in Division 2. All you have to do is take a look at the successful program in Division 1, and Dave will help you. Then go out and try to get people to put up a little money. Go ask NHRA and the host track for permission. And finally, go out and try to get some racers to run it.

If you can't run Top Stock, or Top Super Stock, then don't bitch at Dick for trying to make the class work. Or Woodro, or Art, or me, or whoever else is either organizing it, or winning it. Go out and DO something. Go try to organize Jr. Stock if that's your passion, or where your car fits. We damned sure won't try to stop you, and if you're willing to work with us, we may even be able to offer a little help.

[stockracer]

Wasnt bitchin at Dick, I like the idea. And obviously people like it! BUT I was sayin that it isnt goin to save the sport unless you get more people involved. Thats MY idea though, and everybodys is different.

[Stevie Ficacci]

its hard to involve every one when there are quite a few guys building oddball cars so they can run in a class by themselves. why bother involving people that are clearly trying to distance themselves from this sort of thing?

[Alan Roehrich]

Originally Posted by stockracer

Wasnt bitchin at Dick, I like the idea. And obviously people like it! BUT I was sayin that it isnt goin to save the sport unless you get more people involved. Thats MY idea though, and everybodys is different.

Again, you have to START somewhere. We chose to START with Top Stock and Top Super Stock. Once we get some help from some people, those two classes will grow. Then we have something to build on, and if the demand is there, the next thing could be Jr. Stock. You have to have something actually happening to give people something to get involved with.

Run as companion races to regular NHRA Lucas Oil points meets, and SportsNational Open races, the same way they now have booked in Top Sportsman, Pro Mod, "Gambler's Races", or Super Class races after the regular race day, it (Top Stock and Top Super Stock) will work. Then we'll see where it goes.