Schubeck Lifter Update

[Hans Olsson]

Thank you

[RocketBlock]

My engine had about 2 1/2 hours on it.

I THINK THAT IS A MAJOR PART OF THE PROBLEM. STREET OR STREET RACING IS NOT THE ENVIRONMENT THESE ENGINES ARE DESIGNED FOR. STOCK ELIMINATOR CAMS, VALVETRAIN AND RING PACKAGES ARE NOT DESIGNED AROUND EXCESS HEAT CYCLES OR CONTINUED OPERATION WHICH LEADS TO TOLERANCE INSTABILITY.


Really what they do, is tolerate the ridiculous ramps on Stocker-type flat tappet cams...

SEE ABOVE STATEMENT. THOSE "RIDICULOUS RAMPS" ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR LONG TERM USE. MY OPINION IS THE SCHUBECKS ARE IN THE SAME CATEGORY. TOLERANCES ARE CRITICAL IN THE LIFTER BORE AND MY OPINION IS CONTINUOUS OPERATION WILL UPSET THE TOLERANCES CAUSING FAILURE.

Because of course due to the Stock rules, piston-to-valve clearance is at a minimum.
Mine measured .070" on the intake, .045"+ exhauast ( cam is retarded 4 deg ).

MORE CLEARANCES ARE AVAILABLE. YOU MAY HAVE TO LOOK AT A WIDER LSA. THAT MAY COMPROMISE HP TO SOME DEGREE. YOU MIGHT ALSO WANT TO SINK &/OR SHAVE THE VALVES. SOMEWHERE YOU NEED TO DETERMINE WHAT BENEFIT YOU REQUIRE.



I still have never wiped out ( or even hurt ) a cam lobe, in any engine. ( knocking on my head right now ! )

I THINK THAT'S BECAUSE THIS IS YOUR FIRST STOCK ELIMINATOR (???) CAR.


My plan is to change to the products from Performance Research. IE, tool steel lifters, steel billet cam...
that's why no-rebuild anytime soon !

SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN. I WOULD STILL TRY TO OBTAIN MORE PISTON TO VALVE CLEARANSE. ESPECIALLY IF YOU INTEND TO STREET RACE THE CAR.

[Aubrey N Bruneau]

Street racing ?????????????
here's my "street":



I guess I have a problem, Rocket...
I will under NO CIRCUMSTANCES EVER pound a cold engine...... EVER
No, I do not drive for MILES. The above picture is taken 1 1/2 miles from my shop. I don't race against people out there. I don't take riders. I don't "show off" for the neighbours.
Simply, if acting responsibly, it's a SAFE environment to tune the car.

"Tolerances" in the lifter bore ?
I have to confess two things...
I was never made aware that lifter-to-bore clearances were required to be anything special with these things.
And, I am a low-life... 'cuz I didn't spend $8,000,000.00 to have the lifter bores in my $3000.00 409 passenger-car engine block, machined/indexed/bushed.

Already DID the sink and shave the valves !
This cam is on a 108. I may go back to 110

No, I never wiped out a cam. And with lifters like Schubecks, no one should in Stock Eliminator.

"Street race" this car ?
I don't think so !

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by NHRAstocker409

Street racing ?????????????
here's my "street":



I guess I have a problem, Rocket...
I will under NO CIRCUMSTANCES EVER pound a cold engine...... EVER
No, I do not drive for MILES. The above picture is taken 1 1/2 miles from my shop. I don't race against people out there. I don't take riders. I don't "show off" for the neighbours.
Simply, if acting responsibly, it's a SAFE environment to tune the car.

DavyJones,
Or anybody else...This is the statement by 409Stocker to RocketBlock were I chimed in.
I disagreed with a statement made by 409stocker so I followed up with a response. Get it? Least I'm using my name...

[Aubrey N Bruneau]

This is getting ugly, guys.

Given the fact that Schubeck seems to be disappearing anyhow...
What are the alternatives ?
I was advised by another fellow, to look at the stuff from Performance Research. While I believe that their parts would probably handle the job, the $2300.00 CDN price tag is a littler much for cam and lifters.
I'm not bargain hunting ( I gave up on that thought a LONG time ago with this thing ! ).
Just looking for a more realistic option.

[LNorton]

Hey Jeff, If you look closely in the picture you will notice that the car has a tag on it...

And you are going to tell me that if you lived in an area where there are no houses for miles and the closest track is 280 miles from home that you wouldn't run it a half mile down the road and back if you needed to see if something worked properly. Hell, I will make dry hops in my driveway all day... and I DID test our pure stocker on the street last year. It was tagged still...

Maybe they are just more laid back than most of the pricks here in the US. Where I live most of the people are pretty laid back, but it all returned to mass chaos this weekend when the college asshole students that have no respect for anything showed back up...

[Jeff Lee]

Originally Posted by LNorton

Hey Jeff, If you look closely in the picture you will notice that the car has a tag on it...

And you are going to tell me that if you lived in an area where there are no houses for miles and the closest track is 280 miles from home that you wouldn't run it a half mile down the road and back if you needed to see if something worked properly. Hell, I will make dry hops in my driveway all day... and I DID test our pure stocker on the street last year. It was tagged still...

Maybe they are just more laid back than most of the pricks here in the US. Where I live most of the people are pretty laid back, but it all returned to mass chaos this weekend when the college asshole students that have no respect for anything showed back up...

.....but it all returned to mass chaos this weekend when the college asshole students that have no respect for anything showed back up...

'Nuff said?

[LNorton]

Originally Posted by RocketBlock

My engine had about 2 1/2 hours on it.

I THINK THAT IS A MAJOR PART OF THE PROBLEM. STREET OR STREET RACING IS NOT THE ENVIRONMENT THESE ENGINES ARE DESIGNED FOR. STOCK ELIMINATOR CAMS, VALVETRAIN AND RING PACKAGES ARE NOT DESIGNED AROUND EXCESS HEAT CYCLES OR CONTINUED OPERATION WHICH LEADS TO TOLERANCE INSTABILITY.


Really what they do, is tolerate the ridiculous ramps on Stocker-type flat tappet cams...

SEE ABOVE STATEMENT. THOSE "RIDICULOUS RAMPS" ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR LONG TERM USE. MY OPINION IS THE SCHUBECKS ARE IN THE SAME CATEGORY. TOLERANCES ARE CRITICAL IN THE LIFTER BORE AND MY OPINION IS CONTINUOUS OPERATION WILL UPSET THE TOLERANCES CAUSING FAILURE.

So what you are saying is that race car parts shouldnt have to put up with some street abuse... I would think that if I spent $800 on a set of lifters like Aubrey did, I would be upset when they came apart like this as well.