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Old 06-18-2013, 10:21 PM   #1
Jim Wahl
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Wink Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

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Originally Posted by Stephen Bell View Post
I just don't understand why 1000 hp cars that run in the 8's at 155 mph plus don't need wheelie bars? I hope that this issue gets resolved... S.Bell
It's because most of them are programed to leave soft and then increase power down track. Most of them 60' @ 1.35 or so. Otherwise there is no way a 1200 hp Cobra Jet can run on a 9" tire. Put a 12" tire on then and leave wide open and watch them run 7.90. Jim


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Old 06-18-2013, 10:51 PM   #2
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Default Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

I don't use wheelie bars on stockers or ss'ers as a suspension tuning device. That is what weight and shock adjustments are for. However, with changing track conditions and air they frequently save my car from excessive damage from uncontrolled wheel stands. There probably isn't anyone out there that hasn't spun in a time shot and loosened everything up only to go to the line a few hours later when the track started to come around and hooked and went way too high. Wheelie bars save cars, plain and simple. Comes back to the same old thing: These people making these rules and decisions couldn't build a sbc, ford or Chrysler v-8 that would get them back and forth to work, much less a competitive race car.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:07 PM   #3
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Default Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

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Originally Posted by Jim Wahl View Post
It's because most of them are programed to leave soft and then increase power down track. Most of them 60' @ 1.35 or so. Otherwise there is no way a 1200 hp Cobra Jet can run on a 9" tire. Put a 12" tire on then and leave wide open and watch them run 7.90. Jim


.
I beg to differ........ Outlaw 8.5. ( 26" tall tire, 8.5" wide. Or in this case, the nova was on a DOT legal 235/60/15 Drag Radial. NO WHEELIE BARS!!! Short times are well below 1.35.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVD7LWVGYHY"]Ryan 'Toaster' Jones running 5.00 @ 150+ on 235/60/15 Mickey Thompson Drag Radials - YouTube[/ame]
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Last edited by Notch1320; 06-18-2013 at 11:10 PM.
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Old 06-18-2013, 11:41 PM   #4
Alan Roehrich
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Default Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

Congratulations on proving Jim correct. We run around 1.34 to 1.35 60' times running 10.1X at 129MPH. The car runs 6.35 or so in the 1/8 mile. So he's going 1.35 seconds quicker in the 1/8 mile, on a similar 60' time. Which is EXACTLY the point Jim was making. A car that runs 5.0 @ 150 in the 1/8 mile should be going around 1.20 60' times.

You said "well below" 1.35. Define "well below".

Oh, was that Chevy II using leaf springs and traction bars? How about a stock front clip with near stock front suspension? And around 51-55% of its weight on the front tires?
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Old 06-19-2013, 12:18 AM   #5
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Default Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

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Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich View Post
Congratulations on proving Jim correct. We run around 1.34 to 1.35 60' times running 10.1X at 129MPH. The car runs 6.35 or so in the 1/8 mile. So he's going 1.35 seconds quicker in the 1/8 mile, on a similar 60' time. Which is EXACTLY the point Jim was making. A car that runs 5.0 @ 150 in the 1/8 mile should be going around 1.20 60' times.

You said "well below" 1.35. Define "well below".

Oh, was that Chevy II using leaf springs and traction bars? How about a stock front clip with near stock front suspension? And around 51-55% of its weight on the front tires?
1.18 -1.21 on the car I crew on. 3500lbs...........Leaf Springs........Bolt on replacement style front clip. 52-53% on the nose.

Yes, these cars are different from Stockers.........But it can be done safely without sissy sticks.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:05 AM   #6
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Default Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

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Originally Posted by Notch1320 View Post
1.18 -1.21 on the car I crew on. 3500lbs...........Leaf Springs........Bolt on replacement style front clip. 52-53% on the nose.

Yes, these cars are different from Stockers.........But it can be done safely without sissy sticks.

No, it can't. I'd take them off if I could.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:23 AM   #7
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Default Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

Yes, these cars are different from Stockers.........But it can be done safely without sissy sticks.[/QUOTE]

And what you are missing is that if you'd put slicks on instead of the drag radials, cranked the rpm up on the launch and made some serious starting line power (as apposed to launching at a low rpm, or low timing to reduce power) a setup that would most likely run quicker than the 5.00 you've posted, you'd need wheelie bars. You may be the quickest in your class, that is limited in tire spec, but if there was no tire spec, you'd hit it harder out of the hole like we do and scape your bumper on good tracks, like we can.

My stocker has road a 300 foot wheel stand right verticle, my super stock has hit the bars so hard the rear wheels came of the ground. my 1967 1000hp super charged chevelle pulls 1.5' wheelies, no bars.

...i think yellow bullet has forum where you may make more sense!
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

Alan,
Notch is switching things around a bit. The toaster car turns a 1.28 sixty foot while running a 3.50 rear gear and a 1.80 first gear in a glide. And uses coil over ladder bars and it still appears to be turning the tires. Now he wants to talk about a car he is crewing. He's just out here jacking around. Nothing he has posted has anything to do with Stockers.
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Old 06-19-2013, 08:15 AM   #9
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Default Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

You can't compare a small tire, no wheelie bar, power adder car to a Stocker or Superstocker. Two completely different cars with two completely different setups.
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Old 06-19-2013, 07:29 PM   #10
Todd Geisler
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Default Re: Wheelie Bars are not needed for Safety on Stockers!

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Originally Posted by Alan Roehrich View Post
Congratulations on proving Jim correct. We run around 1.34 to 1.35 60' times running 10.1X at 129MPH. The car runs 6.35 or so in the 1/8 mile. So he's going 1.35 seconds quicker in the 1/8 mile, on a similar 60' time. Which is EXACTLY the point Jim was making. A car that runs 5.0 @ 150 in the 1/8 mile should be going around 1.20 60' times.

You said "well below" 1.35. Define "well below".

Oh, was that Chevy II using leaf springs and traction bars? How about a stock front clip with near stock front suspension? And around 51-55% of its weight on the front tires?
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here a little.

My own car is a heads up, N/A car. Car weighs 2960 with driver and has 54% of the weight on the nose. It's got a conventional headed BBC that makes between 1100 and 1200 hp. The converter flashes to 7000 rpm, 4.57 rear gear on a 275/60 DOT drag radial tire which is 28" tall and has 10" of tread.

The car runs 5.0's at 137 mph and has 60'd a best of 1.129.

I'm just sharing this as there has been some misinformation when the heads up stuff was brought up.

I have used bars for several years, but when I started running this new class they are illegal, so I was forced to figure out how to run the car without them and keep the front end down. No it's not easy and if you make a bad tuning call it will go up (much quicker and more violent than a stocker).

Now, last I knew stockers weren't allowed travel limiters, but S/S was correct?

I'll also concede that lower HP cars need some weight transfer to get up on the tire where a higher HP car can plant it with power.

I will say this, I'm glad I no longer use the bars. They were a PITA as far as I'm concerned. It also makes you work harder to find the right setup for the days track/weather conditions as well as the tuneup you have in the car. That to me is a fun challenge even if I fail to get it right.

I would ask this. If bars were suddenly made illegal on stockers, would those who run just park their cars, or would you buckle down and figure out a way to make it work without them?

Stock and S/S are great classes, some of my favorites by far. I kinda treat mine as if I was running S/S on small tires & stock suspension as far as running as hard as possible to the 60 & 330.

And I do understand you can't easily compare low & high HP cars when it comes to some of this stuff.

Last edited by Todd Geisler; 06-19-2013 at 07:32 PM.
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