Stockers....buttons.....check This Out

jdfpam · 09-13-2007, 01:37 PM

Wow, this has kind of gotten out of hand, as usual. Is it too much to ask that people have an opinion based discussion without throwing jabs? Remember, this post was only started to give people the chance to give their input to NHRA. It does not single out anyone, it does not mean that buttons make you a cheater, it doesn't mean that anyone is any better than anyone else. Lets keep this on topic. Also, NHRA will probably only take their racers opinion, which is understandable. As far as stick cars, I don't know. Never raced one, so I can't have an opinion on that.

Stockracer, I don't see the need for the personal jabs at me. What gives? I don't give them to you or anyone else for that matter. When you make off topic comments about me or anyone else, who you obviously know something about, it kind of makes you look like an a**. How about telling all of us who you are, then we can see if you are credible or not. If you don't do that, no one gives much of a darn about what you say, because it doesn't have any backbone. I have only taken what you said personally because you or someone you know must know my background (NBRA, as you so cleverly put it), and you should know that Columbus was my first race in stock and it was no different than anyone else's first division 3 race, you know what I mean. I have changed everything on my car that I need to, and I just run IHRA because I like the people better and because of vacation time. So, if you know me, than you know that I have nothing personal against anyone using buttons in stock. As a matter of fact, most of my IHRA friends do use them and know and respect my opinion on them. Their opinion is different and that is okay, we can still be friends. Hell, I just went out to eat with about 9 guys in Cayuga over this past weekend, and 6 of them are button racers. Okay, if you you have anything else off topic to say, please PM me or talk to me at a race track-got it?

Mike Beard, you always make the most sensible posts in the most intelligent way. I agree with everything that you have said on here, and I believe most others do also.

Pat Cook, that is some funny *****, LOL. Thanks for lightening this up a little.

Jeff Day

stockracer · 09-13-2007, 02:13 PM

NBRA...What do you think it means? It was not a deep personal dig! And it really wasnt all that clever All I do is shed light on some of the people posting! Most of all revealing hypocrites!

Michael Beard · 09-13-2007, 02:19 PM

Warning: This post is mostly off-topic.
---

>> THIS IS A POSSIBLE NHRA RULE CHANGE SO NHRA GUYS SHOULD DECIDE IT.

If you read the preceeding posts, it's been explained why it concerns IHRA racers.

>> Bring your Pure Stock car to a div one event and your sucess will be limited.

More limited success than not being in the top 125 in 2006, or more limited than not showing up in the points at all in 2007? Well, at least you finished Top 10 a couple of years. My rookie season in NHRA, I finished 11th in Div. 1 Stock with a four-cylinder front wheel drive car. -=shrug=- While I typically make it a point not to get into all the name-calling and mudslinging, because it does absolutely nothing to advance the discussion, I take particular exception to stonethrowers living in glass houses. Point being, Lee's car and driving abilities are irrelevant to the value of his opinion. (But if it helps, Lee has found a great deal of E.T. within some extremely restrictive rules... sounds like the foundation of Stock eliminator to me.)

"Stockracer" bothers me less, because he typically doesn't even try to post anything relevant to the discussion.

Unlike Jeff, I don't even care if Stockracer tells us who he is or what he drives, etc. As long as he says, "This is my opinion about the subject, and this is why I feel this way." then he has added something of value to the debate.

>> NHRA DOSENT HAVE A CLASS WHERE A GUY CAN BUILD A BRACKET CAR AND CALL IT A STOCKER ALA CM CLASS

Perhaps you can tell me all about crate motor cars and the rules so that I can understand how they are bracket cars... then maybe I'll understand what this has to do with 2-steps.

>> OR A CLASS WHERE A GUY CAN BUY A 200 HP STREET CAR AND RACE IT.

That's called a turbo car.

Do Sunbirds count? They make a lot less than 200hp. They're still Stockers. ...and what this has to do with 2-steps is...?

---
Hey, here's something to do with the topic of discussion!

>> Why can't we just leave the rules alone so we can all race?

Eliminating two-steps in automatics would not hinder anyone from competing.

$.02,

Jack McCarthy · 09-13-2007, 02:20 PM

two steps belong on a country dance club floor
throttle stops belong on a u-haul truck
delay boxes belong on ... well... how about a dumpster

if we dont stop the button / blinder racing all cars will be A - G cars...no one builds anything else.

stockers should be able to be driven without all this crap...
let the techmen keep busy looking for those liteweight pistons,oversive valves, wrong blocks and heads short on cc's... instead of rewiring a stocker

and i cant drive a lick i need the EASY BUTTON - and someone to use it

captain jack

and like deep staging...same guys will still win a higher % they are better than me.

stockracer · 09-13-2007, 02:40 PM

First you took away deep satging...Now you want buttons gone...And if I read correctly, now blinders are an issue...when will you stop and race. No matter what best package wins, If you cant do it foot braking, you cant do it with a button, you cant do it with a delay box, you cant do it period! Some people are naturally good and it dont matter what they do or you do to them! How many of you button haters hit a pratice tree? Do you do any good? If its easier put a button in your car..ITS LEGAL, THERES NO UNFAIR ADVANTAGE!

But while were tryin to make it easier to win I would like to see every one with 20/20 vision tossed, NHRA spec glasses for the rest...No top end braking/whomping/dumping...Guys who win more then 2 races a year should be suspended for the rest of the year...Stick cars get automatic .05 knocked off there package (cause theyre at such a disadvantage, even though helms is 3-TIME champ)...Oh, and for jack, when you call NHRA to get a number they tell you what combo to build...that way its even, not just a bunch of A-G cars!

Beard...My opinion....Every one needs to quit making excuses, and go race! If your gettin beat by a button, BUY ONE...or GET BETTER!

burton5809 · 09-13-2007, 02:50 PM

Maybe its just me but it seems the people that are always complaining are the people that are not winning races....coincidence???? Get off your keyboards and get a practice tree and go race...practice makes perfect!

Bruce Noland · 09-13-2007, 02:58 PM

This is just an alert for the manufacturers - get the money right boys!

Charley Downing · 09-13-2007, 03:00 PM

Stock Eliminator racing has always been a game of choice. Weather that it be racing a ford or chevy, mustang or camaro, the racer him or herself still has that choice to make based on there preference. With the button issue this is still true. If one racer wants to foot brake and one wants to two step then there should be no problem. The problem start when one racer tells another racer there is only one way to leave the starting line. If NHRA were to get rid of two steps they must also get rid of blinders etc. Also if two steps are gone then make everyone have the same kind of brakes because some breaks release quicker than others. The point is that you can never equal the playing field unless everything is the same and the only way to do that is have everyone race the same car in the same class with the same equipment (pro stock). NHRA please leave this issue how it is now, up to the racer and there style of racing

.

Harry 6674 · 09-13-2007, 03:15 PM

I live in the northwest and am not real familiar with IHRA. We have no tracks even though some have been available in recent years. Spokane is for sale now from what I understand. What makes IHRA cheaper to race than NHRA?

tpoh815 · 09-13-2007, 05:32 PM

take a button or leave it. none of this is squabbling means a thing. it happens every year about the same time. even if it gets banned the best will still be the best! also my take on the e-shift. will racers be upset if some racers go to non- manual valve bodies .(car actually shifts itself) this isnt unheard of. not much differance. if offering ill take both. peace.mikey h

09-13-2007, 01:37 PM	#1
jdfpam Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ohio Posts: 186 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stockers....buttons.....check This Out Wow, this has kind of gotten out of hand, as usual. Is it too much to ask that people have an opinion based discussion without throwing jabs? Remember, this post was only started to give people the chance to give their input to NHRA. It does not single out anyone, it does not mean that buttons make you a cheater, it doesn't mean that anyone is any better than anyone else. Lets keep this on topic. Also, NHRA will probably only take their racers opinion, which is understandable. As far as stick cars, I don't know. Never raced one, so I can't have an opinion on that. Stockracer, I don't see the need for the personal jabs at me. What gives? I don't give them to you or anyone else for that matter. When you make off topic comments about me or anyone else, who you obviously know something about, it kind of makes you look like an a. How about telling all of us who you are, then we can see if you are credible or not. If you don't do that, no one gives much of a darn about what you say, because it doesn't have any backbone. I have only taken what you said personally because you or someone you know must know my background (NBRA, as you so cleverly put it), and you should know that Columbus was my first race in stock and it was no different than anyone else's first division 3 race, you know what I mean. I have changed everything on my car that I need to, and I just run IHRA because I like the people better and because of vacation time. So, if you know me, than you know that I have nothing personal against anyone using buttons in stock. As a matter of fact, most of my IHRA friends do use them and know and respect my opinion on them. Their opinion is different and that is okay, we can still be friends. Hell, I just went out to eat with about 9 guys in Cayuga over this past weekend, and 6 of them are button racers. Okay, if you you have anything else off topic to say, please PM me or talk to me at a race track-got it? Mike Beard, you always make the most sensible posts in the most intelligent way. I agree with everything that you have said on here, and I believe most others do also. Pat Cook, that is some funny ***, LOL. Thanks for lightening this up a little. Jeff Day

09-13-2007, 02:13 PM	#2
stockracer Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 79 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stockers....buttons.....check This Out NBRA...What do you think it means? It was not a deep personal dig! And it really wasnt all that clever All I do is shed light on some of the people posting! Most of all revealing hypocrites!

09-13-2007, 02:19 PM	#3
Michael Beard VIP Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 4,060 Likes: 0 Liked 13 Times in 9 Posts	Re: Stockers....buttons.....check This Out Warning: This post is mostly off-topic. --- >> THIS IS A POSSIBLE NHRA RULE CHANGE SO NHRA GUYS SHOULD DECIDE IT. If you read the preceeding posts, it's been explained why it concerns IHRA racers. >> Bring your Pure Stock car to a div one event and your sucess will be limited. More limited success than not being in the top 125 in 2006, or more limited than not showing up in the points at all in 2007? Well, at least you finished Top 10 a couple of years. My rookie season in NHRA, I finished 11th in Div. 1 Stock with a four-cylinder front wheel drive car. -=shrug=- While I typically make it a point not to get into all the name-calling and mudslinging, because it does absolutely nothing to advance the discussion, I take particular exception to stonethrowers living in glass houses. Point being, Lee's car and driving abilities are irrelevant to the value of his opinion. (But if it helps, Lee has found a great deal of E.T. within some extremely restrictive rules... sounds like the foundation of Stock eliminator to me.) "Stockracer" bothers me less, because he typically doesn't even try to post anything relevant to the discussion. Unlike Jeff, I don't even care if Stockracer tells us who he is or what he drives, etc. As long as he says, "This is my opinion about the subject, and this is why I feel this way." then he has added something of value to the debate. >> NHRA DOSENT HAVE A CLASS WHERE A GUY CAN BUILD A BRACKET CAR AND CALL IT A STOCKER ALA CM CLASS Perhaps you can tell me all about crate motor cars and the rules so that I can understand how they are bracket cars... then maybe I'll understand what this has to do with 2-steps. >> OR A CLASS WHERE A GUY CAN BUY A 200 HP STREET CAR AND RACE IT. That's called a turbo car. Do Sunbirds count? They make a lot less than 200hp. They're still Stockers. ...and what this has to do with 2-steps is...? --- Hey, here's something to do with the topic of discussion! >> Why can't we just leave the rules alone so we can all race? Eliminating two-steps in automatics would not hinder anyone from competing. $.02, __________________ Michael Beard - NHRA/IHRA 3216 S/SS

09-13-2007, 02:20 PM	#4
Jack McCarthy VIP Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: lyndon ky. ... louisville area Posts: 1,322 Likes: 29 Liked 477 Times in 117 Posts	Re: Stockers....buttons.....check This Out two steps belong on a country dance club floor throttle stops belong on a u-haul truck delay boxes belong on ... well... how about a dumpster if we dont stop the button / blinder racing all cars will be A - G cars...no one builds anything else. stockers should be able to be driven without all this crap... let the techmen keep busy looking for those liteweight pistons,oversive valves, wrong blocks and heads short on cc's... instead of rewiring a stocker and i cant drive a lick i need the EASY BUTTON - and someone to use it captain jack and like deep staging...same guys will still win a higher % they are better than me. __________________ Jack McCarthy 3609 STK "the Captain"

09-13-2007, 02:40 PM	#5
stockracer Junior Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 79 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stockers....buttons.....check This Out First you took away deep satging...Now you want buttons gone...And if I read correctly, now blinders are an issue...when will you stop and race. No matter what best package wins, If you cant do it foot braking, you cant do it with a button, you cant do it with a delay box, you cant do it period! Some people are naturally good and it dont matter what they do or you do to them! How many of you button haters hit a pratice tree? Do you do any good? If its easier put a button in your car..ITS LEGAL, THERES NO UNFAIR ADVANTAGE! But while were tryin to make it easier to win I would like to see every one with 20/20 vision tossed, NHRA spec glasses for the rest...No top end braking/whomping/dumping...Guys who win more then 2 races a year should be suspended for the rest of the year...Stick cars get automatic .05 knocked off there package (cause theyre at such a disadvantage, even though helms is 3-TIME champ)...Oh, and for jack, when you call NHRA to get a number they tell you what combo to build...that way its even, not just a bunch of A-G cars! Beard...My opinion....Every one needs to quit making excuses, and go race! If your gettin beat by a button, BUY ONE...or GET BETTER!

09-13-2007, 02:50 PM	#6
burton5809 Junior Member Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 31 Likes: 0 Liked 26 Times in 2 Posts	Re: Stockers....buttons.....check This Out Maybe its just me but it seems the people that are always complaining are the people that are not winning races....coincidence???? Get off your keyboards and get a practice tree and go race...practice makes perfect!

09-13-2007, 02:58 PM	#7
Bruce Noland VIP Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 1,855 Likes: 83 Liked 444 Times in 145 Posts	Re: Stockers....buttons.....check This Out This is just an alert for the manufacturers - get the money right boys! __________________ Bruce Noland 1788 STK

09-13-2007, 03:00 PM	#8
Charley Downing Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 762 Likes: 16 Liked 653 Times in 89 Posts	Re: Stockers....buttons.....check This Out Stock Eliminator racing has always been a game of choice. Weather that it be racing a ford or chevy, mustang or camaro, the racer him or herself still has that choice to make based on there preference. With the button issue this is still true. If one racer wants to foot brake and one wants to two step then there should be no problem. The problem start when one racer tells another racer there is only one way to leave the starting line. If NHRA were to get rid of two steps they must also get rid of blinders etc. Also if two steps are gone then make everyone have the same kind of brakes because some breaks release quicker than others. The point is that you can never equal the playing field unless everything is the same and the only way to do that is have everyone race the same car in the same class with the same equipment (pro stock). NHRA please leave this issue how it is now, up to the racer and there style of racing.

09-13-2007, 03:15 PM	#9
Harry 6674 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 589 Likes: 0 Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Re: Stockers....buttons.....check This Out I live in the northwest and am not real familiar with IHRA. We have no tracks even though some have been available in recent years. Spokane is for sale now from what I understand. What makes IHRA cheaper to race than NHRA?

09-13-2007, 05:32 PM	#10
tpoh815 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: West Seneca Posts: 537 Likes: 64 Liked 28 Times in 11 Posts	Re: Stockers....buttons.....check This Out take a button or leave it. none of this is squabbling means a thing. it happens every year about the same time. even if it gets banned the best will still be the best! also my take on the e-shift. will racers be upset if some racers go to non- manual valve bodies .(car actually shifts itself) this isnt unheard of. not much differance. if offering ill take both. peace.mikey h

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