OLD Modified Corvettes

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Do any of you guys think it would be worth the time to send Scott Gardner a set of our thoughts?

Refer to my previous post. I've even read this thread and still have no idea what the rules would be, who would build these cars, how many cars there would be, if it would be a participant-based class, a spectator-based class, what would draw sponsors to the class, ad infinitum...

If you send an e-mail saying, "Hey, we want to run old cars kinda like Modified only totally different, like a cheap version of Super Stock", nobody's going to know what you're talking about, and it would be likely to get little response more than, "OK, that's nice."

You need a BUSINESS PLAN. Until you can put together a coherent, solid program here, you're not ready to approach sanctioning bodies, tracks, promoters, or sponsors. That plan or program may go through some adjustments over time, but you need a solid starting point.

I don't say any of this to be a downer: on the contrary, I hope it motivates and focuses your efforts. Get a baseline, and write it up in an outline or rulebook format, and post it here. Refine, and then tackle the business plan end of things. Just like with any business, marketing, or sponsor deal, the person on the receiving end is primarily going to be interested in how it benefits THEM. That explanation is going to have to be more precise than "Because it's wicked cool." Ask yourself all the questions that anyone in those positions would ask you, and try to answer them.


...if you want to equalize the playing field and reduce the ability to make gains by spending money, limit both the intake and exhaust -- and I'm not talking about the cylinder heads or camshafts... think air.

[randy wilson]

In response to Michael Beard's post. I agree. These are not rules, just an idea. If I print the rules, it will be influenced by MY thinking. I'm just trying to feel it out, and see what MOST want. When I wrote em for my track, it was simple. I had to try and include 40, or 50 local boys. This is a little different. Our old heads up website has since been cancelled, or you could observe that we were pretty explicit. I know you're trying to be helpful, but I honestly don't know the proper way to approach this, other then maybe getting Brodix to do it on their own, and that's a stretch. I truly could write up a rule, that looks professional. Then is that the rules? I doubt either NHRA, or IHRA give a damn what I think, so no, I don't actually know what I'm doing.

[Michael Beard]

As I said, you just need a baseline. Again, I've read this thread and have absolutely no idea where the class is right now except a spec head. Right now you have ideas scattered through 10 pages of this post. Consolidate everything into one post, written up in an easy-to-read outline that everyone can follow. Discuss, tweak and amend. It doesn't have to be 100% final absolute -- there will always going to be adjustments made down the road.

The Class Nationals planning thread went the same way. The idea we started out with isn't where we ended up, but we put forth a fairly solid plan and revised as we went until arriving at the final product. Even at this point, we know that there will be changes made in 2015, but we need to get the first year under our belt to have real data and make informed decisions on scheduling, classes, etc.

[randy wilson]

Ok, Here goes. CLASS: ECONO MOD
81 and older cars. No front wheel drive conversions.
9 lbs. per C.I.D.
Min. wt. 3,000 lbs.
Max. 1 750 cfm carb. Choke horn must remain. Baseplate standard 750.
Ford, Mopar, and GM only. Brodix spec head. Only mods allowed angle milling, and polishing combustion chamber. 11\32 valve min. 2.08 max. Titanium allowed.
Cast intake generally available. No external mods. Max 2" spacer.
Any piston, any rod, any crank, any ring package, any bore, any stroke.
No vac pumps, external oil pumps, belt drives, or internal billet pumps allowed.
No computers allowed.
No titanium, or carbon fiber driveline parts allowed, except carbon fiber drive shaft for safety reasons.
Max. 1 clutch disc, no smaller then 10.5 inch. No counter wts. allowed.
Max. primary tube size on header 2". No more then 2 steps on header.
Motor plates allowed.
Cool can allowed.
SpecC-12 VP fuel
Cam lift .750 max at the valve.
Stud mount rockers only, except Mopar.
14.32 max tire size.
Wheelie wheels permitted.
Max
RPM chip allowed. No other chips allowed.
Play back tach allowed.
Maximum 5 forward gears. CLUTCH MUST BE USED IN ALL 5 GEARS IN THE TRUE CONVENTIONAL MANNER.
Removable tunnel allowed.
No more then 50\50 wt transfer.
.4 pro tree only.
Cam must be in stock location, remain stock diameter for engine used.
Lifters must be stock diameter. Roller cams, and lifters allowed.
Any radiator in stock location.
Engine in stock location, plus, or minus 1"
Distributor must remain in stock location.
Crank trigger allowed.
Any head under suspicion must be sent to Brodix, and $500 fee put up for the expense of protested.
After market balancers required. Min, 8 pt cage. (up to NHRA)
1" site plug required in oil pan to inspect pump.
.Autos remove 100 lbs. Must still maintain min wt.

[joespanova]

Those rules have to be changed to suit this , or I can't possibly sign off on them

[Dick Butler]

Excellent. Question about cheaper short block might be Sight hole to observe Stock type crank and rods?(No aluminum rods,use nhra accepted rod for motor.)No Knife edge, no odd metal crank. Is this worth it?

[randy wilson]

Dick, Joe, discuss. I'm open to anything. We had to start somewhere.Also, I see nothing wrong with that car. Allow 2 fours, and add wt.

[Mike Taylor 3601]

Dick,
I agree with you on keeping cranks from getting crazy,alum rod I don't see as issue,a good high quality steel rod cost more than alum rod does,so don't see it as money issue,personally if this class existed,and I was'nt allowed alum. rod I would probaly spend $300-500 more on steel rods I would trust @RPM I would be cranking.
Randy,
Stud mounted rockers vs.shaft are toss up, if starting with nothing cost is not much different,on these engines shafts would not be expensive,first off no offsets would be need so that cost less. Shafts are easier to get on engine like we are talking about if has long valves ,stud mounted have to buy $400.00 ish rocker that has clearance for anything over 1.500 spring or clearance some that cost 250 ish then add 75ish for best arp stud,150-250 for stud girdle,you are right at shaft price.

One thing that could be possibly good ideal is limit lift @ valve to .630-.660 lift that eliminates reason for having valves over .100 longer,don't need all the extra installed height to get springs on heads that will work with bigger lifts,and that eliminates problems of getting rockers to work. If you ever have put .200-.300 longer valves in sbc w/stud rockers you know what I talking about,as rocker is higher up stud,pushrods get longer, rocker body gets closer to retainers,roller gets moved to outside tip of valve,this also happen on shafts,but all you do is get set of stands that moves rocker back toward intake,and has material added to bottom of stand so you don't need .150'' worth of shims.

Also if shafts was allowed that would be level for all three brands on valvetrains.
All rules look good to me,I would maybe add if not covered,material, bore spacing,deck height, maybe say deck has to be 9.00-9.500 that will cover sbc,mopar,and ford,or some how keep short deck exotic stuff out. I know this elimnates 8.200 (302) based windsor,but it's is probaly too short and could give advantage of lighter rotating assm to that combo over the others.
Mike Taylor 3601

[randy wilson]

Mike, I actually agree with all your points. I spent $2,600 on a set of steel rods, and I actually think aluminum rods are easier on parts. I love shaft rockers. I just didn't want people to think this is just about me. Blocks, a very good point made. Min. Deck, say 9". Cams, name your poison. I'm game for anything. Cranks, again, whatever works for me just so we make tear down easy.

[Bruce Fulper]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Ok, Here goes. CLASS: ECONO MOD
81 and older cars. No front wheel drive conversions.
9 lbs. per C.I.D.
Min. wt. 3,000 lbs.
Max. 1 750 cfm carb. Choke horn must remain. Baseplate standard 750.
Ford, Mopar, and GM only. Brodix spec head. Only mods allowed angle milling, and polishing combustion chamber. 11\32 valve min. 2.08 max. Titanium allowed.
Cast intake generally available. No external mods. Max 2" spacer.
Any piston, any rod, any crank, any ring package, any bore, any stroke.
No vac pumps, external oil pumps, belt drives, or internal billet pumps allowed.
No computers allowed.
No titanium, or carbon fiber driveline parts allowed, except carbon fiber drive shaft for safety reasons.
Max. 1 clutch disc, no smaller then 10.5 inch. No counter wts. allowed.
Max. primary tube size on header 2". No more then 2 steps on header.
Motor plates allowed.
Cool can allowed.
SpecC-12 VP fuel
Cam lift .750 max at the valve.
Stud mount rockers only, except Mopar.
14.32 max tire size.
Wheelie wheels permitted.
Max
RPM chip allowed. No other chips allowed.
Play back tach allowed.
Maximum 5 forward gears. CLUTCH MUST BE USED IN ALL 5 GEARS IN THE TRUE CONVENTIONAL MANNER.
Removable tunnel allowed.
No more then 50\50 wt transfer.
.4 pro tree only.
Cam must be in stock location, remain stock diameter for engine used.
Lifters must be stock diameter. Roller cams, and lifters allowed.
Any radiator in stock location.
Engine in stock location, plus, or minus 1"
Distributor must remain in stock location.
Crank trigger allowed.
Any head under suspicion must be sent to Brodix, and $500 fee put up for the expense of protested.
After market balancers required. Min, 8 pt cage. (up to NHRA)
1" site plug required in oil pan to inspect pump.
.Autos remove 100 lbs. Must still maintain min wt.

What? No Pontiacs? I have a 326 that will pop your eyeballs out. Would I get to use Edlebrock heads? Or a factory head? I prefer the factory head.