Econo Modified

[randy wilson]

Mark, what year of car would start carrying the wt? Serious question. Another serious question. Is there an advantage from clutching, and shifting a 5 speed, and say, a trick 200 metric?

[Ed Wright]

The stick cars do bigger wheel stands?

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Mark, what year of car would start carrying the wt? Serious question. Another serious question. Is there an advantage from clutching, and shifting a 5 speed, and say, a trick 200 metric?

Don't know ..That's why I said use wb maybe.
Have to look at the common cars out there..
Maybe under 108 , as is
108 -114 take out 50 lbs.
115 or more, (Tri Five Chevies) take out 100.

If you look at S/SS cars..ET's as good or better with automatics.
MPH usually higher with stick shifts... Simple physics there..although high rpm motors can couple a converter up more, but not 100%...unless of course you allow lock up converters LOL

[randy wilson]

Thanks Mark.That helps.

[Glenn Hayes]

One thing that you need to keep in mind:
The NHRA has turned it's back on Sportsman racing for many reasons, but I believe they no longer want to deal with trying to enforce and regulate engine rules. This requires way to much time, man power, etc which equals money.

Look around, the Pro Mod, 10.5 Tire Classes, Top Sportsman, etc are thriving do to basically allowing you to show up with what ever combination you can dream up, and as long as you meet the minimum weight and have the correct tire, your good to go.

We all know why Super Street, Super Gas and Super Comp have flourished over the past 25 years, same reason, run what ever you want and don't break out. Where they went wrong in my opinion was allowing electronics and throttle controls. Take all of that away and put it back in the drivers seat and see what happens!

If your going to start a new class, one must learn from the failures of years and classes gone by. I, like many of you have been there through all of this over the past 40+ years and that's why this discussion is taking place.

[randy wilson]

Glen, you can't put lipstick on a pig, and call it a goat. Bracket racing, for ALL it's participation, has ZERO crowd appeal. And one way spec might work, is like I've stated, winners, runnerups, and record breakers pull a head, and we, the racers seal the box, ship it in with the owners return address, and let Brodix make the call. I'm sure for a small fee, they would be happy to do it. Also, have 5 designated racers police the class. I already said I'd furnish the fuel check equipment, and the P&G gauge. And no, it don't have to be me policing it. There's several I, and others would trust.

[Adger Smith]

Let the racers pay a small fee and hire Wesley to be independent from NHRA as Tech. He is available. He also makes & implements the rules for EMC. It is set up where He is the final say on Tech.
No reason an independent class couldn't be set up the same way.
There are lots of possibilities. Pro Mod has already opened the gate for classes that are run independent from the mainstream NHRA classes.
With the right set of rules and a good enough show the program could be sold to smaller regional/local tracks. For something like that to work you have to remember it has to have crowd appeal so the track owner can draw spectators. That is a must.!! In today's markets that is a 180 departure from how a lot of local tracks make money. A program like this will not draw enough racers for a track owner to make it profitable by the draw off the racers only.

[Glenn Hayes]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Glen, you can't put lipstick on a pig, and call it a goat. Bracket racing, for ALL it's participation, has ZERO crowd appeal. And one way spec might work, is like I've stated, winners, runnerups, and record breakers pull a head, and we, the racers seal the box, ship it in with the owners return address, and let Brodix make the call. I'm sure for a small fee, they would be happy to do it. Also, have 5 designated racers police the class. I already said I'd furnish the fuel check equipment, and the P&G gauge. And no, it don't have to be me policing it. There's several I, and others would trust.

Randy,
I get it, trust me, but where does developing another "Class Car" bring back the spectator? They don't even watch Pro Stock!

Heads Up, pounds per Cubic Inch racing was always great to watch. I've been to Bethany, even raced there a few times in the late '70's. I've been to every NHRA national track event in the country, and almost every divisional event track dozens of times. I worked for a major racing sponsor.

There are small groups all around the country that are having some success with their specific styles of cars, The Super Shifters, The East Coast Gassers, The Southeast Gasser Association, as others. These are not NHRA or IHRA classes, and the area track or tracks that love them and embrace them with support do so because they bring in a crowd.

This "Style" of racing is what is bring folks back to the drag strip: [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av0xgcchv18"]CPTV - THE ANATOMY OF A RIVALRY - YouTube[/ame]

[randy wilson]

Glen, this is just my opinion, so let me try to explain it. I grew up doing just no break out racing, so everyone knows where I'm coming from. When it was going, they averaged 1,000 spectators a night. And have had as many as 1,500. I ran at Eddyville in the 70's. They had standing room only, and 64 car fields in SS, and Top Street, (Comp) and turned away 86 cars the first time I entered. I was one. I did not qualify. The bump was .34 under. I went back when they started bracket racing. About 30 spectators. That's what we're missing, and I think it is over. I am quitting this year. Last year was my, and Steve Thompson's last. This just piqued my interest enough to stick around. Do I know it will work? No! Do I hope someone higher up sees the opportunity? Yes! Do I think they will? No! But it is fun to dream.

[joespanova]

Originally Posted by Glenn Hayes

Randy,
I get it, trust me, but where does developing another "Class Car" bring back the spectator? They don't even watch Pro Stock!

Heads Up, pounds per Cubic Inch racing was always great to watch. I've been to Bethany, even raced there a few times in the late '70's. I've been to every NHRA national track event in the country, and almost every divisional event track dozens of times. I worked for a major racing sponsor.

There are small groups all around the country that are having some success with their specific styles of cars, The Super Shifters, The East Coast Gassers, The Southeast Gasser Association, as others. These are not NHRA or IHRA classes, and the area track or tracks that love them and embrace them with support do so because they bring in a crowd.

This "Style" of racing is what is bring folks back to the drag strip:

To address the wheelstands stick v/s auto.......who cares? The wheelstands are for the attention whores anyway.
The stick cars are more entertaining to watch because of the violent nature or "presentation" that the automatic cars just dont have.
Lets face it , most stock and super stock cars are boring to watch unless you're a bonfide old school car guy like me.
The example in the video makes it clear........it's the theatrics associated with the cars that draw fans.......this new / old resurrection of an old idea has to keep that in mind.............it must be exciting for fans to watch. Real cars.....not chassis cars , running quick....if you're going to make it a 3000lb minimum then change the weight to 8.5 so a 350 wont have to carry so much weight........no ones going to build a small engine these days anyway.
The NHRA is clueless.
With regard to the comment about some sportsman racers "making a living" out of this , frankly , I don't see how...............and if so , what KIND of a living.........I can't believe anyone would even WANT to.