Cheating [2-step And Buttons]

[LNorton]

Originally Posted by stockracer

How many times have we been here? Nobody that I know of besides muncy has been caught cheating in a while! As far as a go fast item, I believe if you ask anybody who uses one, 90% loose 2-5 hundredths in the 60' And your right about flash racing, it takes some room for error out, So go do it! Try it for your self! And I personaly believe that foot braking is easier in a real car then on a pratice tree! Norton, dont be pissed, cant you flash race just as easy in a stick car? No different than a trans brake! jmo...

The car is too slow to leave on the flash. The weight break we run in is equal to P/SA. In pure stock we are also restricted to all stock suspension components except for shocks.

The beginning of all of this can be traced back to the LED bulbs. With them it was easy to leave between bulbs, but now it is darn near impossible.

[tgriffith]

Lee,,,have you ever thought about blinding the tree and leaving on the second bulb?????,,,I know,,,I know,,its too quick,,,,BUT how about second gear at about 2500???? or even 3rd gear (if possible),,,,it could be worked out,,,VAN is doing it now and he is nearly perfect every pass in the Burb,,,,I seen a string of .00`s to .01`s that would make your mouth water,,,your car is fast enough to run under the index with no problem even leaving in 2nd and maybe 3rd,,,,,,need to try it at a frid test if it wont tear any thing up



you racers that have a heavy slow car can use a 2 step off the 2nd bulb leaving out of 2nd or third gear,,,,kills only about .5 to .60 tenths and still have the option of Flash racing like the faster cars......if 2steps/buttons stay legal,,,,,thats our intentions,,,,,,going to get a huge wagon that runs about 1.00 under and leave out of high gear,,,,,it will work ---or maybe a turbo car--who knows???

[Mickey Whaley]

I'm not taking up for anyone who has or was caught cheating. by the way if you know someone please post a name for the real racers to see?? i would like to know, not just talk about someone doing it just post their name and be done with it. As cheaters go at the Gainesville Nat'l event every winner in the first round was driven up on ramps and checked for line locks hooked to buttons by mr collins who takes sides with no one and not a single person was bounced so i know that the entire stock class was looked at, i dont know if every division does this but DIV 2 did no cheaters.

[Mike Mayhew]

The guy Al and the Emmons caught at Dallas name was Muncey, or something like that.
Of course if a guy gets caught cheating in Stock, he can always go to NHRA Pro Stock, Ala Dave Connally.

[Rod Greene]

All you automatic guys just don't get it. A stick car leaves off the clutch it doesn't care when you release a button long throw short throw or hydraulic. It leaves when I let the clutch out. I say ban them in autos allow them in Sticks.

[burton5809]

Originally Posted by Rod Greene

All you automatic guys just don't get it. A stick car leaves off the clutch it doesn't care when you release a button long throw short throw or hydraulic. It leaves when I let the clutch out. I say ban them in autos allow them in Sticks.

Then just take the buttons out of the automatics but keep the 2 step....Just make it where there are no buttons. Then both the auto cars and the sticks are leaving off a pedal. Or is that still to much of an ""advantage"" for the auto cars?

[Cam]

Originally Posted by clutch man

WHATS FAIR FOR 1 SHOULD BE FAIR FOR THE OTHER??????? Why let one car do it and not the other i run a stick but whats good for one car is good for the other no unfair treatment for a certain combo make it fair for all cars and drivers. now lets start another argument for stick cars????????? and 2 steps?????????????? hahahahahah be here all year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Comparing stick cars in Stock with automatics is a bit like apples and oranges isn't it? As Rod says the launch is controlled solely by your left foot. The only electronics effecting the launch of the car is the wiring to your brain.
What would be that plan to launch a stick car without a 2 step? Seems fairly clear without a two step the stick racers are not in the game.
Keep the rpm control but leave with your foot. IMO that's Stock.
Cam Chowen
NHRA 6067
B/FI

[Beth Denysenko]

Then we have a solution. Allow two steps, but only with a pedal activation. No advantage for sticks or automatics, and if you want to run one, you can, if you don't, footbrake away.

I have not been racing long, but learned footbraking. I have now made 14 passes using the two step and I must say it has greatly helped my consistency downtrack as I am leaving at the same RPM every time - still looking for the consistency off the line but I understand totally that comes with practice practice. And I am still trying to figure out a consistent way to stage with the two step, but with only 14 attempts, I don't expect miracles.

There are SO SO SO many ways to lose in this sport. And with a slower car, I have an additional one with the first opportunity to redlight (I know, another discussion). Keep the two steps please, since this essentially is a bracket class and the consistency they offer helps a newbie like me even the playing field even just a bit. And for those "footbrake only" guys, try it some time. You might not be so quick to get them out of the sport. Might even want one on your car.

[tgriffith]

Beth,,yes your car will be more consistent,,,yes,,it easier to hold,,,,yes,,you leave at exactly the same RPM,,,,,,,,,You will be extremely hard pressed to ever be consistent on the tree,,,,,,the reason is because you will have to rythm race to have any type of RT to be competitve,,,,not that it cant be done,,It can BUT your problem lies with the LED`s,,,,,,Almost everyone I know that rythm raced has an extreme tough time doing so now,,,,And Im not talking about racers who dont win,,,Im speaking of world champs,,,,track champs,,,A few, I consider some of the best on the planet,,,,,just cant do it anymore,,,,,,,,,In the neck of the woods where I race,,,how they dealt with this problem is they got faster cars,,,,,Its likely to go to a race and by the 3rd round, if your dialed 6.8`s,,,,your the slowest car in the field,,,,,,anyway

the reason I`m stating this is,,think what your trading off, the A-E cars are able to flash race and be .010 nearly every pass while slower cars (without the aid of deepstaging) are stuck rythm racing ,,,,IN your car,,no matter what your think,,,to have a good RT (between .000 and .020),,,you will need to leave about ..07 to .10 BEFORE the last LED,,,,,I know there will be those who claim,,,no not me,,,I see the last LED,,,,do yourself a favor ,,,go to a test and tune,,,,ask them to set for a .500 pro tree and just see,,,,,you will be surprised what you find,,,,,

,,,,,the one thing I keep hearing is that the "winners of the week" could win in anything,,,,,,,maybe thats true,,,so why are they driving A-d cars if they can win in a P/SA???.....just look at the results,,they dont lie,,,,,,why would you spend 50k in a car when you could spend only 10k in a car if there is no advantage???,,,,,It all comes back to the 2step/button leaving,,,,

[LNorton]

Originally Posted by Cam

What would be that plan to launch a stick car without a 2 step?

I still have the factory ECM in the car. If they say bye bye to two-steps then I will just go back in there and set the Park/Neutral Rev Limiter to what I want. Not much can be said about the paramaters of the factory ECM.

stockracer, I don't think you get what Tim is saying. At this point in time slower cars have the ability to leave off of the flash due to the use of a two-step, but when you take it away, only the fast cars can leave on the flash.

So in effect LEDs, no 2-step, and no deep staging have ruled out a real slow car.