What's wrong with Stock?

[Michael Beard]

Originally Posted by FS Fan

Without the package cars how could a late model car ever be competitive?

Proper HP factoring. There is a difference between Advertised HP and NHRA Factored HP. It may take a dash of common sense, and then let the AHFS work to do the rest.

Do you care if the factories are involved? Factories get involved when its marketable.

Yes, certainly. And of course they want to be both marketable and competitive. "Competitive" does not mean willfully legislated to be dominant right out of the box. No one has asked that the factory cars carry a 200HP 'penalty' to start with, but nor should they have an immediate 50HP advantage, either. The AHFS took 10 years to bring the underfactored LS cars into line. All people have asked is that common sense be used when introducing new cars.

There's NO doubt that the factory race cars are very cool and very impressive cars in and of themselves -- regardless of indexes or HP factors. They can stand on their own without needing a crutch and would still receive well-deserved attention, fanfare, and accolades.

Regarding the disparity in MPH between cars what if NHRA decided to put slow cars out rather than move fast cars to Super Stock?

Then slow cars would cease to compete in Stock, and the financial barrier to entry into Stock would rise. Is this a desired outcome? Alternatively, there is a precedent for cars that do not fit into the Stock classification and spirit of the rules to instead run Super Stock.

It is the National HOTROD Association, and if the slowest modern version of a hot rod can run 11's modified to race is that the new bar?

"Fast" is relative to the performance potential of the engine/vehicle combination. The 'bar' is the class Index.

Is it important to bring new and/or young people into the sport?

Yes, certainly. However, I would argue that $100,000+ factory race cars are not the likely avenue for young people to become involved in Class Racing. More than likely, new young blood will come first via bracket racing before finding their way into Class Racing.

Is everyone ok with the same people racing the same cars for the foreseeable future? A 16 year old kid who might get bit by the racing bug has only seen LS based Chevies, Modular Fords, and Gen 3 Hemi's.

I think people would welcome showroom-available late model cars, just as they have for years. That would require such cars being available in the Classification Guide.

On a separate note, there are plenty of young people involved in drag racing. Most of them I see are bracket racing carbureted small block cars, ranging widely from musclecars to S-10's, Malibus, and fox-bodied Mustangs.

[Jim Kaekel]

Excellent points, Michael. Very well thought out. I just wish NHRA was on the same "wave length" as yourself. Coming from someone who has been "used and abused" over the years. Back in the '90's, I "took it" from the LT1's and LS1's until their factors got in line, and now I'm taking it from CJ's in D/SA & E/SA that probably belong in B/SA.

[Mark Yacavone]

Some random thoughts on this thread:

First of all , I have nothing against new cars, technology,.... any racers, factories, factory reps, dealerships or anyone else who took advantage of this situation.
Y'all know who's left, and where the blame lies.

I believe the 50 car special run clause was put in the book to accommodate the aftermarket package installers, such as Shelby and Saleen, not to create a factory playground in S/SS

Remember when there were only a couple of blown CJ packages and 2 hemis out there? Some weren't worried after a few got hit with HP right away.They thought the AHFS would take care of it.
How'd that work out for ya?

The AHFS will not and can not fix this problem. The factory combos don't have the same restrictions as an assembly line combo.. Not emission regs. , No CAFE standards or points to worry about . They can come out with a new package every month if they want. Change a few specs..Start all over again with the AHFS.
Apparently, they have been given carte blanche do do whatever they want, when they want, by you know who.
If ever there was a definition of Factory Experimental, this is it.

Now some want to mandate a change in the roll bar rule for entry level Stockers due to the preponderance of 8 and 9 second cars, further moving the line of who can or who can't afford to participate in, and support Stock Eliminator.
The roll bar rule should be 11.49 and faster..Same as in bracket racing. To require otherwise is demeaning to Class racers. I don't know why others don't get fired up about is.
I run against 9 second cars all the time with my 15 second street car. I f I didn't feel safe, I wouldn't do it . My decision to race or not .I suggest others do the same.

I don't know who these people are who might buy a new V6 Mustang because they watched a blown Factory Experimental run in the 8's ? Are these the same people who think John Force really drives a Mustang?

Guys with the older combos who don't like the current format didn't do yourselves much good by flooding the 60th Nats entries so much that they had to raise the quotas..Just sayin'


What else? I'm sure there's more here to comment on soon.

[Michael Beard]

Now some want to mandate a change in the roll bar rule for entry level Stockers due to the preponderance of 8 and 9 second cars, further moving the line of who can or who can't afford to participate in, and support Stock Eliminator.
The roll bar rule should be 11.49 and faster..Same as in bracket racing. To require otherwise is demeaning to Class racers. I don't know why others don't get fired up about is.
I run against 9 second cars all the time with my 15 second street car. I f I didn't feel safe, I wouldn't do it . My decision to race or not .I suggest others do the same.

Not "some". *I'm* the one that brought it up, and I specifically said first that I thought that 8-sec cars belonged in Super Stock, and I also said that if I continue to race my 15-sec Stocker against 150 mph cars I would choose to put a roll bar in the car. I haven't started any petition to NHRA or anything. Sheesh.

I guess you could go by bracket rules and not wear a helmet, firejacket or fire pants in a 15-sec Stocker, too, but I choose to wear them. I felt perfectly safe, too, right up until a car went sideways in front of me in my lane at 140+. I was just bringing up some self-preservation thoughts. To each their own.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Not "some". *I'm* the one that brought it up, and I specifically said first that I thought that 8-sec cars belonged in Super Stock, and I also said that if I continue to race my 15-sec Stocker against 150 mph cars I would choose to put a roll bar in the car. I haven't started any petition to NHRA or anything. Sheesh.

I guess you could go by bracket rules and not wear a helmet, firejacket or fire pants in a 15-sec Stocker, too, but I choose to wear them. I felt perfectly safe, too, right up until a car went sideways in front of me in my lane at 140+. I was just bringing up some self-preservation thoughts. To each their own.

Wasn't referring to you, Michael.
Someone mentioned maybe it was time for all Stockers to have a roll bar. I can't find it at the moment.
Helmet's not a big investment that one has to put into a Dime Rocket to find out if it's worth pursuing..It stays with the driver,,not the car.

"To each their own" My point exactly.

[Ed Fernandez]

Originally Posted by Michael Beard

Not "some". *I'm* the one that brought it up, and I specifically said first that I thought that 8-sec cars belonged in Super Stock, and I also said that if I continue to race my 15-sec Stocker against 150 mph cars I would choose to put a roll bar in the car. I haven't started any petition to NHRA or anything. Sheesh.

I guess you could go by bracket rules and not wear a helmet, firejacket or fire pants in a 15-sec Stocker, too, but I choose to wear them. I felt perfectly safe, too, right up until a car went sideways in front of me in my lane at 140+. I was just bringing up some self-preservation thoughts. To each their own.

When I sold my Gremlin to Eric Merryfield I asked him to have a rollbar installed in the car
as his daughter and son were going to drive it.He went the extra mile and had a cage and chassis connectors put in it. I would have done it if I kept the car. It's unnerving to have one of the new cars blow by you at around 60 mph. It's only a matter of time till one of them takes out a lower class stocker trying to make it close at the stripe.
It entails buying a jacket,belts etc. but hey how much is your life worth to you?