2015 Rules

[69Cobra]

So does this mean that the FS cars will be regulated by the AHFS?

[Jeff Teuton]

Kidding about what?

[Ed Wright]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

Kidding about what?

Picking on the MOPAR guys. Ford & GM both have new engines out for lower classes. Just not a lot running yet.

[Jeff Teuton]

Ed, just saying, sweeping regulations for 5% of the cars and making all those new classes make no sense. Need a little more purpose than that. It just so happens that almost all the cars affected are Mopars. And having all the new classes combine Stick and Auto and not the regular classes is not real equitable. However I assume the HP factors will remain the same in both Stock and Super Stock. I'm just not sure having two identical cars except for the transmission at different weights is parity. On that note, I really have respect for the 3 pedal guys. That thing is a real chore. I didn't know SS was broken.

[71mavlouisville]

Personally think the rule change in CS sucks.

Best runs ever (as far as I know off the top of my head, correct if wrong)

9.26 - Mans - Chevy
9.27 - Perno - Ford
9.28 - Bogner - Mopar

Will there be a list of accepted heads?

Same thing happened in A/ND, one brand (chevy) with a 14 degree head can go to 300 CC and flow more than 400 cfm.

This made Ford and Mopar obsolete in the class, WTF, had great parity and now only Chevy!

If anyone knows a Ford or Mopar head that can compete with this, I am in the Market.

http://www.racingjunk.com/Heads/1851...-400-CFM-.html

[Ed Wright]

Jeff, if you had a seriously thrashed car that suddenly could not run within a couple of tenths heads up against a new car that just got put together, you would think it was broken. I'm sure, from your view, everything was fine. :-)
Lloyd told me how fast his 360" DP could go in SS/IA, not hard to calculate what it could go if dropped down in SS/JA, and I would have to spot him 40 lbs. Just about everybody I know feels like the 360" is the absolute softest deal out there. I saw the specs on the new 5.0L CJ also. Looks even worse. Or, better. Depends on if you own one. LOL
If they were just rated kinds close to begin with.....
Probably a lot cheaper for me if they had left things alone. Guess I'll go one more year.

[Jeff Teuton]

GT was specifically created for new cars with old motors including the jelly bean fwd conversions. After a few years and many requests, NHRA allowed the old cars with not matching motors in. I was asked to write a letter just because they needed a letter from someone, anyone. But what better car than a SS/AH that has just been priced out of the market to find new life in GT. They are pretty good, but no better than other combos. Time will tell, but it's still just 5% of the cars.

[Eric Merryfield]

Originally Posted by Jeff Teuton

GT was specifically created for new cars with old motors including the jelly bean fwd conversions. After a few years and many requests, NHRA allowed the old cars with not matching motors in. I was asked to write a letter just because they needed a letter from someone, anyone. But what better car than a SS/AH that has just been priced out of the market to find new life in GT. They are pretty good, but no better than other combos. Time will tell, but it's still just 5% of the cars.

Jeff, so I read it wrong I guess. So now you if you run your challenger in GT: its FGT/H instead of GT/HA......and Beards 80 Volare, and Southards 74 duster are now not in GT/HA either but in your class? FGT/H That doesn't sound right.....

[FS Fan]

Head studs and aluminum radiators I think are long overdue.

New car classes I think will be bad for the sport. As if Stock racing wasn't confusing enough let's add even more classes to ensure we won't get new fans.

The vast majority of new cars were already in their own classes, AAA, AA, BB. Even those in CC were really all new cars. In 2008 before the new cars the 7.5lbs class had two cars so it's not like the new cars ran all the old ones out of CC. Among the rest of the new cars there's maybe 20 spread out over maybe 5 classes?

The reality is that new cars now have fewer options than old cars. So we lose some new car customers. But they aren't going to build an old car, they just won't come to NHRA.
many of the new car combos there are only a handful of them, they now will not have a class to race and get dumped in a combo. Many of the old cars will suffer the same fate by the new cars moving out, especially in stick classes. Then you can run Larry Hill's pickup and Gary Summers mustang ii, who run way faster than the new cars anyway. Remember class finals in A, B, E, and G stick were old v. New at Indy this year. The A stick new car winner didn't even go -1.00 so you can't tell me he's destroying the class. The B loser was an older car that slowed in the final, earlier performance would have won over the new car.

If there is a benefit for anyone I guess the A B C class guys will no longer have the Copos to run with. Congrats. Even that is debatable as an old car beat a new car in C/SA at Indy which was a ten car field. The B & C auto winning Copo 396 took on major hp to win and will not be as competitive next time. If you don't think AHFS works look at the 5.7 Hemi auto rating.

If I was an older car I would be very concerned that the sponsors including contingency will start posting only in the new car classes. The factories and racers are spending money and getting visibility from PRI booths, to magazine stories, to Facebook pages. If you sold windows would you promote the customer who just bought brand new latest technology windows or the customer who bought windows 20 years ago that you don't make anymore? I know someone will post something like "the old window guy because it shows durability" which is novel but not the reality.

To all the posters on this thread that act like this is the greatest thing I wonder what you think got fixed, if you have actually raced against the new cars (are you currently racing at all), and if the end result will be what you want. NHRA has driven a stake between old and new with this move and the result could really hurt the old car racers.

And btw it doesn't address at all the soft index or no AHFS for the showdown events! Will those still happen?

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it!

These rules are a lose-lose for everyone. I am just a fan but if I were a racer I'd be prepared for less money, racers going elsewhere leaving smaller fields, and fewer fans. That's my crystal ball at least.

[Andrew Hill]

Originally Posted by FS Fan

New car classes I think will be bad for the sport. As if Stock racing wasn't confusing enough let's add even more classes to ensure we won't get new fans.

It's 12 new classes, but they're removing AAA, AA, BB auto and stick, so it's only 6 more than before.

The vast majority of new cars were already in their own classes, AAA, AA, BB. Even those in CC were really all new cars. In 2008 before the new cars the 7.5lbs class had two cars so it's not like the new cars ran all the old ones out of CC. Among the rest of the new cars there's maybe 20 spread out over maybe 5 classes?

Definitely more than 20 with how many more COPOs have been coming out. There were a bunch at the Indy Fall Classic I'd never seen before. There were quite a few people who jumped into CC (well AA back then, and back to AA now) when it was created, but they jumped back down when the supercharged Mustangs were running it, and quite a few new fast combinations have been through there. I'd expect a lot more old cars in AA now.

The reality is that new cars now have fewer options than old cars. So we lose some new car customers. But they aren't going to build an old car, they just won't come to NHRA.
many of the new car combos there are only a handful of them, they now will not have a class to race and get dumped in a combo. Many of the old cars will suffer the same fate by the new cars moving out, especially in stick classes. Then you can run Larry Hill's pickup and Gary Summers mustang ii, who run way faster than the new cars anyway. Remember class finals in A, B, E, and G stick were old v. New at Indy this year. The A stick new car winner didn't even go -1.00 so you can't tell me he's destroying the class. The B loser was an older car that slowed in the final, earlier performance would have won over the new car.

I don't see how this changes new cars options. There are still all of the same engine combinations for them to run, and if someone wants to build one just to pick on the old cars, I personally don't care if they don't show up. If a guy wants to build a new car to showcase the new technology coming out of the parts catalogs, he still can.

As far as A, B, E, and G stick at Indy. I watched the A car blow the tires off in 1st gear and still run 9.60s at the Fall Classic, and he went 1.14 under at Indy. Indy was the very first race for the B car, and it went .11 faster on its best run than the old car and was down 10 mph. I don't really think you can consider the E/S final a race. There were 3 old cars in G/S this year.

If there is a benefit for anyone I guess the A B C class guys will no longer have the Copos to run with. Congrats. Even that is debatable as an old car beat a new car in C/SA at Indy which was a ten car field. The B & C auto winning Copo 396 took on major hp to win and will not be as competitive next time. If you don't think AHFS works look at the 5.7 Hemi auto rating.

In order for the AHFS to work, somebody has to actually run one out. If you think the AHFS does work, look at the 5.7 Hemi stick rating and the class final in E/S at Indy.

If I was an older car I would be very concerned that the sponsors including contingency will start posting only in the new car classes. The factories and racers are spending money and getting visibility from PRI booths, to magazine stories, to Facebook pages. If you sold windows would you promote the customer who just bought brand new latest technology windows or the customer who bought windows 20 years ago that you don't make anymore? I know someone will post something like "the old window guy because it shows durability" which is novel but not the reality.

So the majority of contingency money is from aftermarket parts suppliers who do not know or care what type of car you're using their part on. The OEMs have stepped up lately and added some good contingency money in for the new cars, but I have no problem with that when they spend so much money on those cars. I don't see a situation other than that where contingency could be posted only for new cars.

To all the posters on this thread that act like this is the greatest thing I wonder what you think got fixed, if you have actually raced against the new cars (are you currently racing at all), and if the end result will be what you want. NHRA has driven a stake between old and new with this move and the result could really hurt the old car racers.

And btw it doesn't address at all the soft index or no AHFS for the showdown events! Will those still happen?

Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it!

These rules are a lose-lose for everyone. I am just a fan but if I were a racer I'd be prepared for less money, racers going elsewhere leaving smaller fields, and fewer fans. That's my crystal ball at least.

This is absolutely, without question, a win for the class. You will see quite a few old cars come back out when they do not have to worry about losing heads up to a new, under factored, car.

I do not have to run new cars heads up, in class or eliminations. I have raced against new cars, and I've won and lost. However, going to Indy to get my *** kicked by a 352 Mustang or 5.9 Challenger does not sound enticing to me. I will be at Indy this year. Yes, it does not address the low horsepower ratings, but we also do not have the indexes yet, so we will have to wait and see.

This is a major step in the right direction, and you will see more cars at the racetrack because of it.