Entry Level SS(MOD) rules proposed

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by Sean Marconette

No disrespect, but that is not true. If the clutch is set correctly the ignition and clutch is not needed to shift a clutch assisted G-Force or Jerico.

I am at a loss on your clutch rules? Dual disc smaller than 10.5" clutches are common place in Stock. If you want to eliminate the stick guys than your current rules have done so. If you want to limit the clutches to maintain a limited budget class then state no Billet or ONLY stamped steel pressure plates allowed. Not allowing counterweight does not even make sense. Again your rules allow unlimited on the automatic transmissions and hand cuffing the stick racers.

Sean

Yes, the comparison is laughable.

[randy wilson]

Ok. Explain. Let me in on the joke. Would a dual clutch and computer make you quicker? Yes? Would a vac pump build more power? Yes. Would a hand fabricated intake produce lower ET's? Sure. Would unlimited porting on the heads help performance? Of course. Would driving clutchless lower ET? Sure. But they are not allowed. That's what Comp's for. We're trying to make it affordable. All these things limit money spent. That was our goal. Remember, it's the same for everyone. Again, if not interested, don't run it. But it might just be a hit locally, and again people can understand it. Something very few do today as spectators.

[Rod Greene]

The clutch rules don't make any sense. These rules must be proposed by some slush box racer.

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Ok. Explain. Let me in on the joke. Would a dual clutch and computer make you quicker? Yes? Would a vac pump build more power? Yes. Would a hand fabricated intake produce lower ET's? Sure. Would unlimited porting on the heads help performance? Of course. Would driving clutchless lower ET? Sure. But they are not allowed. That's what Comp's for. We're trying to make it affordable. All these things limit money spent. That was our goal. Remember, it's the same for everyone. Again, if not interested, don't run it. But it might just be a hit locally, and again people can understand it. Something very few do today as spectators.

My reference was the comparison between the rules for stick and automatic cars.

Restricted clutches = restricted converters (Lock up converters for one, are not addressed)

How is it that a stick shift driver is required to make 4 clutch assisted shifts (Which I've done hundreds of times) and an automatic driver who needs to move a handle once or twice is allowed a chip-assisted auto air shifter? (Rolls eyes)

I realize your honorable intent here but in the end, or perhaps from day one an experienced racer with adequate funding will dominate this class and you'll be right back where you are today with a new, expensive heads up eliminator.

[randy wilson]

Could be right. No lock up converters should be addressed. That being said I ain't too bright on autos, so please explain. And I ain't being smart, I truly want to know. Is an auto better under these circumstances? We've also thought of only allowing clutch cars. I know Comp gives autos a 250# break, and their own index, and I've noticed both classes run realitively close to each other. I realize that's compared to a clutchless, but just my experience, and believe me when I say I realize we never had a Comp type clutch dialed in, but we only gained .06 going to a clutchless.

[Dick Butler]

Seems like a Stick racer should offer an inexpensive Clutch /trans rule that would be a good starting point. No lock up converter is a good rule suggestion.

[Pvt Parts]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Could be right. No lock up converters should be addressed. That being said I ain't too bright on autos, so please explain. And I ain't being smart, I truly want to know. Is an auto better under these circumstances? We've also thought of only allowing clutch cars. I know Comp gives autos a 250# break, and their own index, and I've noticed both classes run realitively close to each other. I realize that's compared to a clutchless, but just my experience, and believe me when I say I realize we never had a Comp type clutch dialed in, but we only gained .06 going to a clutchless.

We've had this discussion before on the phone. Too much to go into here but I'd be happy to go over it with you again. You are right about making large gains when moving to a clutchless with a crappy driver. The real gains are in getting the slippage right to keep the motor at max power. I picked up .13 at my first race with a 288 in C/SM with just the clutch setup. -.45 to -.58

The reality I think you fail to see here is the overall advancement of technology and the related costs. Few people here have raced in a heads up eliminator. You've run comp before so you know what I mean. Your proposals will limit costs somewhat but in the end money will rule even more so than the class based eliminators. The guys who can't keep up will get discouraged and quit and here we are. Fact: Drag racing in any form is very expensive.

[Dave Casey]

Originally Posted by Pvt Parts

My reference was the comparison between the rules for stick and automatic cars.

Restricted clutches = restricted converters (Lock up converters for one, are not addressed)

How is it that a stick shift driver is required to make 4 clutch assisted shifts (Which I've done hundreds of times) and an automatic driver who needs to move a handle once or twice is allowed a chip-assisted auto air shifter? (Rolls eyes)

I realize your honorable intent here but in the end, or perhaps from day one an experienced racer with adequate funding will dominate this class and you'll be right back where you are today with a new, expensive heads up eliminator.

I agree completely, the trans rules are way outa whack between stick and auto, unless you want to put weight on the automatic cars. You are basically giving autos every new thing up to date and sending the stick cars back 20 years

[Ed Carpenter]

No inexpensive trans out there.

G Force 4000+
Jerico 4000+

No ones going to run anything else because it wont last JMO....

[randy wilson]

Thanks guy. But I have not ran Comp, I attempted to get to run comp. Big difference. Ha! I truly do respect any and all opinions, but I must disagree with the fact that the cost would get out of control unless allowed to. The problem in my opinion early in Mod was tech turned a blind eye to discrepancies. I remember running Modified at Bristol in the 80's, and watched a D\EM run and he was clutchless the whole way. No one said a word. I watched several others do the same thing. I thought, "What a joke." Either it's a rule, or it's not in my opinion. Now, if policed tightly, I just don't see how it can get out of control, but I'm willing to listen. Let's break it down a little. Block, around $2,000. heads with the best allowed parts, with rockers,$4,000, intake, even if CFE or Wilson does it. $1,800, pistons, $1,800, best rings, $1,300, crank allowed $1,000, rods, $1,100, oil pan, $1,000, carb, $1,200, spacer, $100, cam, $500, lifters, the best, $1,200, cam gear and chain, the best, $250, Harmonic balancer, $500, water pump, $250, oil pump, $100, distibutor and crank trigger, $500, valve covers, $250, push rods, $500, plus $3,000 misc. That comes to $22,350. Way cheaper then some classes, and most have at least 60% of this stuff laying around. How can it get out of control? Have a very tight rein on the heads, and cost will be down. Plus, you never have to update the heads, and if you hurt one, $500 buys you a bare spare.