Why Class racing dies slowly

[Ron Middleton]

Dick,
I fully understand what you're getting at but wasn't that pretty much the initial idea of Super Modified? I have never seen crate motors work in oval track racing as I ran the Parts Pro Truck Series for almost 5 years about the same JC Beattie was running. They introduced crate motors and it all went to hell in a hand bag. What keeps someone with money from buying 10 motors, dynoing them all and selling off all but the best 3 engines. The spec deal will work somewhat but in the end the money will rule. Just look at cylinder heads in Stock now. One thing for certain, we can't turn the clock back, the technology has gotten us in this vicious circle and is just part of it. After my car was stolen I haven't raced the last 2 years and am currently working on returning. IT won't be a top qualifier but should still be fun. My driving will probably be the biggest thing that will keep me from winning much. And as far as the bracket racing/class deal. That is one of things I like best about Stock and Super Stock. You can still bracket race em if you like and that makes it all look like a better choice to me. Just look at Beard and his program.

[randy wilson]

Originally Posted by Ron Middleton

Dick,
I fully understand what you're getting at but wasn't that pretty much the initial idea of Super Modified? I have never seen crate motors work in oval track racing as I ran the Parts Pro Truck Series for almost 5 years about the same JC Beattie was running. They introduced crate motors and it all went to hell in a hand bag. What keeps someone with money from buying 10 motors, dynoing them all and selling off all but the best 3 engines. The spec deal will work somewhat but in the end the money will rule. Just look at cylinder heads in Stock now. One thing for certain, we can't turn the clock back, the technology has gotten us in this vicious circle and is just part of it. After my car was stolen I haven't raced the last 2 years and am currently working on returning. IT won't be a top qualifier but should still be fun. My driving will probably be the biggest thing that will keep me from winning much. And as far as the bracket racing/class deal. That is one of things I like best about Stock and Super Stock. You can still bracket race em if you like and that makes it all look like a better choice to me. Just look at Beard and his program.

I never ran true Stock or SS anything. Always hood scoop cars. The reason? I don't think I was quite smart enough to venture there. Way too many combos to figure out, plus knowing the grey areas. But I don't believe the combos would have gotten out of control had there not been quite so many to choose from. No way NHRA or IHRA could possibly catch everything under that scenario. Dick and I don't always agree on the heads up deal, but we don't get angry over it either. He thinks a sealed crate motor would work, I don't. I think the Brodix deal is better. Only because it works in circle track, and crate motors don't. We were just presenting the idea to bring that notion into SS as an alternative, but hardly a slow class. Just a tad cheaper. Without the fear of a new head coming out next year. I truly don't see, with all the new classes it would disrupt anything. As far as the guy with the most dollars winning, I witnessed an engine locally in a 69 Camaro no more then $7,000 actual dollars in it outrun a well known Comp/SS engine builders $28,000 dollar engine in this exact same scenario. It was close, but the guy on social security disability limited budget, (he wasn't driving, by the way) won by .002. In the biggest race of the year. Both cars were torn down, both were 100 percent legal.

[SStockDart]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

I never ran true Stock or SS anything. Always hood scoop cars. The reason? I don't think I was quite smart enough to venture there. Way too many combos to figure out, plus knowing the grey areas. But I don't believe the combos would have gotten out of control had there not been quite so many to choose from. No way NHRA or IHRA could possibly catch everything under that scenario. Dick and I don't always agree on the heads up deal, but we don't get angry over it either. He thinks a sealed crate motor would work, I don't. I think the Brodix deal is better. Only because it works in circle track, and crate motors don't. We were just presenting the idea to bring that notion into SS as an alternative, but hardly a slow class. Just a tad cheaper. Without the fear of a new head coming out next year. I truly don't see, with all the new classes it would disrupt anything. As far as the guy with the most dollars winning, I witnessed an engine locally in a 69 Camaro no more then $7,000 actual dollars in it outrun a well known Comp/SS engine builders $28,000 dollar engine in this exact same scenario. It was close, but the guy on social security disability limited budget, (he wasn't driving, by the way) won by .002. In the biggest race of the year. Both cars were torn down, both were 100 percent legal.

$7,000 engine out run a $28,000 engine....really????

[HR9121]

Stop the insanity!

[Mike Jones]

Originally Posted by HR9121

Stop the insanity!

Car count in Denver after Q2: S - 34, SS -16...




Mike A114
P/SA

[HR9121]

Originally Posted by Newine

Car count in Denver after Q2: S - 34, SS -16...




Mike A114
P/SA

Afraid Denver is not an indication on the pulse of sport as it always has low car counts. Columbus divisional 102 stockers 79 super stock.

[randy wilson]

Originally Posted by SStockDart

$7,000 engine out run a $28,000 engine....really????

Yes, really. The breakdown on the $7,000 engine.283, .090 over, $600 honed and lifter bores bushed, high-tech dual plane, $250 dollars, port work, $100, 29 year old Pistons bought from Rick Katterjohn, and lightened by Rebco, $500, stock rods finished by Al Parker, $200, stock 283 crank, and balancing, $300, used Moroso oil pan, $100, dart 200 cc heads, angle milled, and valve job by Al Parker, $1,200, cam by Comp, $275, roller lifter by comp, $300, cloyes hex-a-just, $150, Howard rocker arms, $250, push rods, $100, used stud girdle, $100, total seal rings, $300, bearings, and gaskets, $300, super sucker spacer, $100, z28 oil pump, $25, ATI steel dampener, used, $150, used water pump, $50, used 1 and 7/8ths headers, $150, damn best 750 cfm $1,200. Misc. $300. I know because I assembled it. Don't know the breakdown of the other engine, but it was to be the hot item. And it did run.

[SStockDart]

Originally Posted by randy wilson

Yes, really. The breakdown on the $7,000 engine.283, .090 over, $600 honed and lifter bores bushed, high-tech dual plane, $250 dollars, port work, $100, 29 year old Pistons bought from Rick Katterjohn, and lightened by Rebco, $500, stock rods finished by Al Parker, $200, stock 283 crank, and balancing, $300, used Moroso oil pan, $100, dart 200 cc heads, angle milled, and valve job by Al Parker, $1,200, cam by Comp, $275, roller lifter by comp, $300, cloyes hex-a-just, $150, Howard rocker arms, $250, push rods, $100, used stud girdle, $100, total seal rings, $300, bearings, and gaskets, $300, super sucker spacer, $100, z28 oil pump, $25, ATI steel dampener, used, $150, used water pump, $50, used 1 and 7/8ths headers, $150, damn best 750 cfm $1,200. Misc. $300. I know because I assembled it. Don't know the breakdown of the other engine, but it was to be the hot item. And it did run.

Nice job, congratulations

[randy wilson]

Thank you. It actually was a shock.

[Dick Butler]

Gentlemen, I appreciate the place to discuss my view of Racing Class in Stk and SS.
There is a place for every type of racing in these eliminators.
I appreciate all your input and opinions. I appreciate you listening to my thoughts.
Lets end this discussion with a hand shake and a thank you at this time.
Good Luck and I hope to see you all at the races..

Dick Butler