lets have fun...who is the best Jr. stocker of all time?

[bill dedman]

Dwight,

I never got to see that '52 Olds of Jack's run. I had moved out of the stste by the time he was running that car, I guess. He was a very innovative racer, though, from what I heard. Didn't he run a '59, or so, Pontiac wagon in Super Stock with a 2bbl and a manual transmission? I seem to remember reading that he was very successful.

Bill

[vic guilmino]

Did anybody make a conv. for the 58 hydro

[Dick Butler]

When I bought John Diannas Sedan Delivery it was third hand. Used up motor. Most of the trick one off parts were not on the car by that time. Stahl carbs, adjustable headers and maybe even a trick trans and convertor. I was on my first race car. I bought it as a way to learn. I couldnt set the timing alone. Every week end I ran and tried to learn more about the operation of a race car. Then the rule change to no HYDRO or vette motor in Sedan Delivery.
I will post pictures of the conversion of the panel to a 2 dr wagon PG car.
I shipped the motor to John Dianna who rebuilt it and I bought the trans from Marv and started to run locally. We Ran Indy 71 R/U to barkley in O/SA the car which became Ripes 57 or reverse. I got down to 13.98 but very little Jr. Stock help to speed my learning.
My blue wagon never was very fast as I was very low on experience. I know Supinski converted his panel then and ran mid 13.60s I believe. It was a heavier car than the panel but I think they then dominated the class over the 57 cars. I think the numbers were similar once they were worked out by experienced people.
I have pictures of his converted at the Gators.

[Bob Rice]

Tom,
Thanks for the kind words but I wouldn't go that far. There are guys out there that have great collections but some of them just don't seem to want to share them. I've been fortunate enough to have good people trust me with their collections and share them with the world. All of them have been amazed at just how many people there are that enjoy seeing those old pictures. So, if anyone has any old pictures tucked away in a closet, just let me know and I will be happy to scan them for you.
Bob Rice

[bill dedman]

Originally Posted by vic guilmino

Did anybody make a conv. for the 58 hydro

Vic,
The '58 transmission (called "Jetaway" by Olds and "Strato-Flight" by Pontiac, was an outgrowth of the transmission that everybody used in the sedan deliveries, but with some basic differences. No parts would interchange between the two, that I am aware of.

First off, neither transmission used a torque converter, per se. They both used fluid couplings, which are nothing but a torque converter without a stator.

Fluid couplings allow slippage so that the engine can run at an idle without moving the car when it's "in gear."

Torque converters do that PLUS they have the capability of multiplying input-shaft torque like a conventional gearset. They get this additional capability through the use of a "stator", a set of rotating fins which redirects fluid so that it hits the driving turbine at an angle. As I try to explain how this works, I realize that I am in no way qualified to try to illustrate how this accomplishes torque multiplication..

Trust me; it does.

Lacking this torque-multiplying capability, the hydros (both of them) had, of necessity, first gear ratios in the high 3's, or low 4's. A TH350/400 could get by with something like a 2.45:1 ffirst geat because they had the torque multiplication from the converter to help get the car rolling.

It was possible to modify the fluid couplings in the hydramatic transmissions to increase stall speed by reducing the amount of vane area exposed to fluid, but there was no change in gearing like you get with a high-stall onverter.

Generally speaking, I believe that as stall speed increases, so does the amount of torque multiplication; not so with the fluid couplings. It's still 1:1.

If I'm wrong about that converter/stall business, somebody please correct me.

At any rate, the '58-up hydros were thought to be somewhat less efficient than the earlier units, but still could be a workable racing transmission. Lots of Pontiacs, in particular, ran really fast times with those dual-coupling hydros.

I don't think that stall speed was a problem.

[WagonKiller]

Ok so say i'm building a Jr stocker nowadays and plan on driving it to say car shows/nostalgia meets that sort of thing.should i


build it exact with this hydro thing i can probly never find or afford or find parts for or

leave the muncie in it?

[Dick Butler]

We shouldnt forget Bob Burkett(sp) with the "Behemoth" or HillBilly Duncan who ran hard in Div 3 with the Dodge wagons. Great cars. Roger England ran a SS/DA . Red Baracuda I think.

[Rich Biebel]

Originally Posted by vic guilmino

does anybody rememder when george had a 58 pontiac

I have a vague recollection of Cureton running a '58. There were a few '58 Pontiacs around and a friend of mine ran one for a couple years. Craig Muller was his name and he was from NJ. He was also a pro bowler and made the TV show a few times. '58's had a lot of different engine combos possible with various induction and cams, both hydraulic and solid (McKeller). All were 4 speed hydros and were some very cool cars to me at the time. I owned one myself, a 2dr hdtp Chieftain and ran some 14 second times with my "street" car. It had a set of 4.56's in it to run fast and was a little rediculous towing a '57 Sedan Delivery with it ! The sedan Delivery did have a Vitar Hydro and it did weigh a ton and was a serious pain in the butt to bolt that "not a converter" together as it had a paper gasket and a lot of bolts. Who was the best Jr Stock racer of all time? Thats a very tough question as there were many guys that had a lot of success. I can tell you that any car that had Jenkin's Competition on it was usually fast and Cureton was always fast, but there were just too many real good cars and drivers to name one. Every track had a dominant group and then there were the guys who did real well at races like Indy....that was the biggest measuring stick back then was winning a National event....period