Crate Motor Class

[CrateCamaro]

I hate to revive this post thats almost 8 years old but i have to comment for the lost racers of IHRA stock. Its unbelievable how we are treated like outcasts that live in the land of misfit toys. Im 37 years old....got involved in IHRA Stock in 2008. Built a crate motor because i liked the idea. Ran .5 under my first year and was so proud but i wanted more. Worked on it, spent the money, did the research, lots of dynoing. Fast forward to 2016. Set the H/CM record in the worst conditions possible. It was like i won the world series. Something ill hold and be proud of for the rest of my life. So no im not looking for a pat on the back or a hero biscut. But my question is how many people in the 25 to 35 age group are building a stocker? Second question...how many NHRA stock racers are in the age group of 60 and up? What im trying to say is without bringing the IHRA combos into NHRA what will happen in 10 years? 20 years. Its a dying sport already. We need to stick together and help eachother out here. Have a look at the latest Nitro Joes and see how many CM / Pure Stock / GT Stock racers there are and now have nowhere to race. Sure NHRA purists will say who cares but we are all in this for the same reasons....because we live and breathe stock eliminator. We love the class. And no...crate motors are not the same as circle track crate engines....the combos are IDENTICAL to a traditional stocker build, just has a different casting number on the head. Imagine if the tables were turned here. Im sure alot of you were around when modified had their cords cut...probably not that great of a feeling. This is not any different. And no going bracket racing (et1 and et2) isnt an option id rather park it. If we were to be accepted into NHRA (by the negative feedback stretching back to 2009 it will never happen) we would already have to be hit with 3 tenths off the index. Reset the HP factors and go. Theres zero to loose and everything to gain here. And all kidding aside we are less of a threat then the super charged entrys of todays factory hotrods which i believe should have their own deal personally. Just a thought fellas.

[Rory McNeil]

So you ran a 68 Camaro in Crate motor, and the engine is identical to a NHRA engine, other than the head castings? Piece of cake!! Lift up that cast iron intake manifold and QJet, replace your illegal heads with pair of easy to find GM castings, and away you go!!! Then you can play with all the other 350 68 Camaros in F,G, and H/SA. Good luck!

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Rory McNeil

So you ran a 68 Camaro in Crate motor, and the engine is identical to a NHRA engine, other than the head castings? Piece of cake!! Lift up that cast iron intake manifold and QJet, replace your illegal heads with pair of easy to find GM castings, and away you go!!! Then you can play with all the other 350 68 Camaros in F,G, and H/SA. Good luck!

Their isnt a legal camel back head out there that will outflow a bone stock 350 vortec off a pickup truck. Having said that the compairable engine that you discribe for my car is a 295hp combo....i naturally carry 330hp factory rated and at one point is was 340....settling down currently at 334hp. The step backwards without having exotic backwoods wichcraft heads and intake would be staggering. Sure there is guys out there that run fast with that combo however i really didnt want to have to start all over again.

[Dan Fahey]

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro

I hate to revive this post thats almost 8 years old but i have to comment for the lost racers of IHRA stock. Its unbelievable how we are treated like outcasts that live in the land of misfit toys. Im 37 years old....got involved in IHRA Stock in 2008. Built a crate motor because i liked the idea. Ran .5 under my first year and was so proud but i wanted more. Worked on it, spent the money, did the research, lots of dynoing. Fast forward to 2016. Set the H/CM record in the worst conditions possible. It was like i won the world series. Something ill hold and be proud of for the rest of my life. So no im not looking for a pat on the back or a hero biscut. But my question is how many people in the 25 to 35 age group are building a stocker? Second question...how many NHRA stock racers are in the age group of 60 and up? What im trying to say is without bringing the IHRA combos into NHRA what will happen in 10 years? 20 years. Its a dying sport already. We need to stick together and help eachother out here. Have a look at the latest Nitro Joes and see how many CM / Pure Stock / GT Stock racers there are and now have nowhere to race. Sure NHRA purists will say who cares but we are all in this for the same reasons....because we live and breathe stock eliminator. We love the class. And no...crate motors are not the same as circle track crate engines....the combos are IDENTICAL to a traditional stocker build, just has a different casting number on the head. Imagine if the tables were turned here. Im sure alot of you were around when modified had their cords cut...probably not that great of a feeling. This is not any different. And no going bracket racing (et1 and et2) isnt an option id rather park it. If we were to be accepted into NHRA (by the negative feedback stretching back to 2009 it will never happen) we would already have to be hit with 3 tenths off the index. Reset the HP factors and go. Theres zero to loose and everything to gain here. And all kidding aside we are less of a threat then the super charged entrys of todays factory hotrods which i believe should have their own deal personally. Just a thought fellas.

Concur !
FWIW I am gathering information focused on reviving the concepts of Pure Stock, Junior Stock and Crate Motor under one Class Structure.
If NHRA becomes interested can be merged into existing NHRA Classes Indexes.

One of the key elements developing rules are for the newer cars.
Would create a Bolt-On Class for Stock.
Reviving the Junior Stock for cars using the Blueprinted Cams.
Adding CM engines to add to the mix.
Use a Max Seat Pressure Spring Rule toning down the cam and add mufflers.

Cost effective, reliable, fun.
Classes that does not require fragile pitchy super high winding expensive Stocker Engine.
That was what Modified Production was suppose to be.

Looking at the 2066 and new generation aspirated cars like Chevy SS, Cudas, Darts, Mustangs, Caddys that have V-6's and V-8's.
Several racers were trying to get their late model combinations certified by IHRA before the boom.
Lot of Stocker guys had the new cars and wanted to race them in Pure Stock.
Got calls on it often.

The new cars and racers are the cornerstone of the future.
Flexibility of being able to use a larger engine in GT or easy to get CM helped IHRA a lot.

The new generation of kids are not going to build a $50,000 Stocker.
They will buy a new car add headers, gears, converter, slicks, tune.
Most are driveway mods and are racing then at the local tracks.
These Bolt On Classes were the rage when the LT1 Camaros and B-Bodys came out in the late 90's early 2000.

Another sources of cars are PureStockDrags.
Have been collaborating with some of the key members.

Crate Motor and GT were great ideas to extend Stock.
Loved the fact you can pop in a 455 in place of a 305 or 350.

Aftermarket industry loved the CM cars.
Now producing new Aluminum Replacement Heads based on original castings.
Stock Ports, Combustion chamber and screw in studs.

I see in the future a new rule coming allowing these Head Replacements and even intake manifolds for Stock.
Good original castings are scarce competing against the restoration industry.

One other thing and was a very true statement.
Most of us are well over 50, 60 and 70 years old.
In the next ten years most of us will be making other decisions.

Regardless if the new generation of racers are not invited they will look at other venues.
You have to market and sell to this generation or they will not come.

AND one day Class Racing will become a note in History Books.

D

[Ed Wright]

Tony (Cratemotor), many of us have to wonder why anybody would build a car that could only run with one association? Why would a person not simply build one that could run with anywhere?

NHRA has so many classes, and cars (compared to IHRA) that why would anybody want to add more classes?

And our hard working tech people have to keep up with even more combinations?

I have been doing this since 1962, and have now seen both AHRA & IHRA come and go. Both had some "unusual" classes.

Logical thing to do would build a car that could run anyplace. Not expect others to make new rules to accommodate your poor choices.

You can't just make your car a legal Stocker?

[Bob Don]

..

[Mike Gray]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Logical thing to do would build a car that could run anyplace. Not expect others to make new rules to accommodate your poor choices.

You can't just make your car a legal Stocker?

^^^
My new stocker (older car) AA, A or B/A car is being built with an eye toward other classes if I don't want to run in stock only. It can go S/ST, NE, D-gas, brackets etc. and can be easily made street legal. Yea it's going to cost about 50K but that's probably less than a new car (Corvette, Mustang, Challenger) would set you back.

[CrateCamaro]

Originally Posted by Ed Wright

Tony (Cratemotor), many of us have to wonder why anybody would build a car that could only run with one association? Why would a person not simply build one that could run with anywhere?

NHRA has so many classes, and cars (compared to IHRA) that why would anybody want to add more classes?

And our hard working tech people have to keep up with even more combinations?

I have been doing this since 1962, and have now seen both AHRA & IHRA come and go. Both had some "unusual" classes.

Logical thing to do would build a car that could run anyplace. Not expect others to make new rules to accommodate your poor choices.

You can't just make your car a legal Stocker?

You asked me this before like im some kind of moron. 2016 Nitro Joes shows over 50 CM cars. So i guess im not the only one who chose to back myself into a corner. In my geographical area we have (had) 2 tracks with in 3 hours driving distance that have (had) IHRA National or divisional races. So it made sence for me to build an IHRA combo. Plus, without making excuses, there is also 4 or more dirt circle track and 1 ashfalt track in a 5 hour radius so alot of the good castings have gone away with that stuff so yes it next to impossible to find heads and intakes. 330hp Crate motor uses 2 castings found on 96 and up 5.7L vortec engines and they flow real well and there is lots available. So it made sence at the time to move forward with the crate engine combo. And as for the hard working NHRA officials its maybe 10 more engines (ford, dodge and GM) that are identical to whats already there inspection wise. Your making it sound like we have some exotic stuff that is space age.

[Rory McNeil]

Originally Posted by CrateCamaro

You asked me this before like im some kind of moron. 2016 Nitro Joes shows over 50 CM cars. So i guess im not the only one who chose to back myself into a corner. In my geographical area we have (had) 2 tracks with in 3 hours driving distance that have (had) IHRA National or divisional races. So it made sence for me to build an IHRA combo.

WOW, 50 Crate Motor cars for all of 2016, NHRA had almost 1600 cars in their Stock classes in 2016, also according to the 2016 Nitro Joe Stats. What would have made more sense in my opinion, is if you would have built a NHRA legal combination to start with, you could have still ran IHRA, as well as NHRA events, and not had to complain about making a bad choice. Let me guess, when VCRs first came out, I bet that you chose a BETA system.

[Ed Wright]

Shame to have your class done away with like that. Last time I tried to run an IHRA race, I told my friends "This deal is dying." Never did get my check cashed.

Last time I looked Nitro Joe showed more than 50 cars in my class alone (SS/JA), more than all the crate motor cars.