Poking the Bear Ford Performance Products

Great post Charlie!

Originally Posted by Charley Downing

Tom please tell us who all these unhappy ford racers are. I think 90% of the ford racers that actually go to more then 2-3 races a year are happy. This JDM bash Mike D thread so I can get my way has been going over two weeks now and I only see 2-3 in the whole county mad. Heck Jim even questioned Al Corda a veteran class racer when Al had something good to say about Mike.

If you and JDM don’t like the ford rep you two should talk with any of the GM sportsman racers with cars over 8 years old. Most have no idea who their rep is, Heck most of them could not even tell you who their last three reps were. I asked two long time GM SuperStock racers that have won national events in 2018 with top of the line fast clean GM cars if they were getting any help from GM and they both just laughed we can’t even get a free T-shirt or hat.

I think Mike has done a good job helping ALL the ford racers new and old over the past year. Funny last year at Indy all ford racers new and old were invited for a group INDY photo. Has GM or Mopar ever done that for all their racers at an event like INDY?

[Tom Dolan]

I see a pattern here, hoven drives a mopar, downing drives a mopar, corda use to drive a mopar, and mike drives a mopar, but he support all the ford racers. How can that be, ford does not make anything for the old cars, what support could ford possible give. Oh he is a nice guy, my bad. Well he did get the rs combo approved, that's a big plus.

[Jim D'Amore]

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

Great post Charlie!

Todd,


I think you and I have met in the airports more than at the race track. Congratulations on your win, that Mopar has been around a long time. If you owned a 2008, 2010, or 2012 Cobra Jet you would understand how difficult it is for the owners of these cars to have an engine combination already on the books and then have Mike D. take it off the books while saying to NHRA Ford is no longer interested.. You should have seen how heart broken Don Fezell was realizing the class he help start (Showdown) that he could no longer participate in. Along with ruining the chance for more Cobra Jets to participate.


I know if my engine builder received R&D motors from Mike D. for Free I would stick up for him too. I would think he is a great guy if I got multiple engines for free. This is a whole new can of worms Mike is involved in, do you want me to open it?


Jim D'Amore

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore

Todd,


I think you and I have met in the airports more than at the race track. Congratulations on your win, that Mopar has been around a long time. If you owned a 2008, 2010, or 2012 Cobra Jet you would understand how difficult it is for the owners of these cars to have an engine combination already on the books and then have Mike D. take it off the books while saying to NHRA Ford is no longer interested.. You should have seen how heart broken Don Fezell was realizing the class he help start (Showdown) that he could no longer participate in. Along with ruining the chance for more Cobra Jets to participate.


I know if my engine builder received R&D motors from Mike D. for Free I would stick up for him too. I would think he is a great guy if I got multiple engines for free. This is a whole new can of worms Mike is involved in, do you want me to open it?


Jim D'Amore

Yes, please do.

[DrJRacing]

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore

Todd,


I think you and I have met in the airports more than at the race track. Congratulations on your win, that Mopar has been around a long time. If you owned a 2008, 2010, or 2012 Cobra Jet you would understand how difficult it is for the owners of these cars to have an engine combination already on the books and then have Mike D. take it off the books while saying to NHRA Ford is no longer interested.. You should have seen how heart broken Don Fezell was realizing the class he help start (Showdown) that he could no longer participate in. Along with ruining the chance for more Cobra Jets to participate.




I know if my engine builder received R&D motors from Mike D. for Free I would stick up for him too. I would think he is a great guy if I got multiple engines for free. This is a whole new can of worms Mike is involved in, do you want me to open it?



Jim D'Amore

The old saying “something is wrong in Dodge” comes to mind as I read
this. If one owns one or more 5.4/4.0L 2008, 2010, or 2012 Cobra Jets,
your incentives for developing your racing program, or someone you were considering for driver/ sponsorship, are more limited. So are the resale value of these cars. Just simple, provable observations.
Douglas Jonak 🇺🇸

[kdanner]

Originally Posted by DrJRacing

The old saying “something is wrong in Dodge” comes to mind as I read
this. If one owns one or more 5.4/4.0L 2008, 2010, or 2012 Cobra Jets,
your incentives for developing your racing program, or someone you were considering for driver/ sponsorship, are more limited. So are the resale value of these cars. Just simple, provable observations.
Douglas Jonak 🇺🇸

How so? 5.4/4.0 was never legal in Stock Eliminator at all. This year it is. OK, it's still not legal in the showdowns, but it never was. Plus the earlier cars can run any 5.0/2.9 combo now. Isn't that far less limitation than ever before?

[Jim D'Amore]

Originally Posted by kdanner

How so? 5.4/4.0 was never legal in Stock Eliminator at all. This year it is. OK, it's still not legal in the showdowns, but it never was. Plus the earlier cars can run any 5.0/2.9 combo now. Isn't that far less limitation than ever before?

kdanner,


The 5.4L 4.0L has been legal in stock for over 3 years. It was just recognized and put in the guide this year. But 3 years ago you could have raced this combination. As for the 5.4L 4.0L in showdown, it was on the books for 30 days. NHRA didn't post it for 2 weeks after it was approved so it was made viewable to the public for about 2 weeks. Roger Allen didn't like it so Mike D. took it off.


If you spent 8 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&D work on your 5.4L 4.0L combination why in the world would you put the 5.0L in play? It just doesn't make sense for those who want to run their original 5.4L combination. You can put a 2016 crate motor in a 10 or 12 SCJ car and run it in the showdown but you couldn't run the original 5.4L combination it came with.


Why would Mike D. take a legal stock eliminator combination out of the showdown guide? I asked him face to face and he could not give me an answer. I even asked his boss last night and he still hasn't given me an answer. It is a legal stock eliminator combination, the showdown class is stock eliminator.


Jim D'Amore

[Bruce Noland]

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore

kdanner,


The 5.4L 4.0L has been legal in stock for over 3 years. It was just recognized and put in the guide this year. But 3 years ago you could have raced this combination. As for the 5.4L 4.0L in showdown, it was on the books for 30 days. NHRA didn't post it for 2 weeks after it was approved so it was made viewable to the public for about 2 weeks. Roger Allen didn't like it so Mike D. took it off.


If you spent 8 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&D work on your 5.4L 4.0L combination why in the world would you put the 5.0L in play? It just doesn't make sense for those who want to run their original 5.4L combination. You can put a 2016 crate motor in a 10 or 12 SCJ car and run it in the showdown but you couldn't run the original 5.4L combination it came with.


Why would Mike D. take a legal stock eliminator combination out of the showdown guide? I asked him face to face and he could not give me an answer. I even asked his boss last night and he still hasn't given me an answer. It is a legal stock eliminator combination, the showdown class is stock eliminator.


Jim D'Amore

The show down class is NOT Stock Eliminator! It is a Special Run class that is allowed to run in the Stock Eliminator Category.

[Jim D'Amore]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

The show down class is NOT Stock Eliminator! It is a Special Run class that is allowed to run in the Stock Eliminator Category.

I don't know the difference but I do know NHRA calls it Stock Eliminator Showdown class. Even when it's announced, it's presented as Stock Eliminator showdown class. It started it's life in Stock Eliminator and the engine combinations are in the Stock Eliminator guide. If you take your Showdown Stock Eliminator car to a divisional race you can run it in Stock Eliminator. So every FS Stock Eliminator engine combination is legal expect for the Ford 5.4L 4.0L and the GM 327 4.0L combination. Mike D. and Roger Allen made that happen.


Jim D'Amore

[kdanner]

First off 2 different things Jim. DrJRacing said things are "more limited", when we know this year they are less limited than ever before.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore

kdanner,


The 5.4L 4.0L has been legal in stock for over 3 years. It was just recognized and put in the guide this year. But 3 years ago you could have raced this combination.

I'll just have to take your word for that I guess, but in reviewing the latest stats for this year and the end of year stats for last year, no one raced one in stock eliminator.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore

As for the 5.4L 4.0L in showdown, it was on the books for 30 days. NHRA didn't post it for 2 weeks after it was approved so it was made viewable to the public for about 2 weeks. Roger Allen didn't like it so Mike D. took it off.

I'm aware it was posted as legal, for a very short time in the winter when there were no races, then removed. So, no one ever raced one. If someone spent money on one during that period, it's unfortunate. I agree that shouldn't have been made legal then not in short order. I think most would agree that it doesn't belong there when for years it was a SS only combo, just like the the 327/4.0 doesn't belong there either.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore

If you spent 8 years and hundreds of thousands of dollars in R&D work on your 5.4L 4.0L combination why in the world would you put the 5.0L in play? It just doesn't make sense for those who want to run their original 5.4L combination. You can put a 2016 crate motor in a 10 or 12 SCJ car and run it in the showdown but you couldn't run the original 5.4L combination it came with.

1. Who are you talking about? Again, I find no record of the 5.4/4.0 ever racing in stock eliminator. I hope you aren't talking about a Superstock car.
2. They can run their original 5.4/TVS combination, with weight break, everyone knows that.

Originally Posted by Jim D'Amore

Why would Mike D. take a legal stock eliminator combination out of the showdown guide? I asked him face to face and he could not give me an answer. I even asked his boss last night and he still hasn't given me an answer. It is a legal stock eliminator combination, the showdown class is stock eliminator.

Don't you think the very simple answer to that is the 4.0L blower, when the current situation is all 3 brands running a 2.9 blower and running close together? I don't think anyone wants the potential to revisit anything like the old days of Pro Stock where lead trophies had to be handed out in attempts to constantly level the playing field.