Wondering what stock racers think

[nhramnl]

Originally Posted by Gary Parker

The only remotely justifiable argument for lower indexes is that it "keeps out the riff-raff", and I consider that to be nothing more than arrogance on the part of the racers who feel that way. Indexes will NEVER eliminate sandbagging.

Really...I saved 3 years to have my engine fixed so I could go back out and race. I started with a camaro that ran 4 to 5 under .worked my *** off testing on a very limited budget to make my car faster. We are a performance based class. If you knew me you would know I would like as many people at the races as possible. It has been said that lowering them would keep people away. I know personally I am not going to some because I triggered it once by .005 when the air got real good overnight at Epping. Now if I had a heads up run from another fast car in the class it could happen again. what do I get for all my hard work is horsepower. I also never mentioned 3 tenths, I do agree that is too much. And yes it would be wonderful if we had someone like Famer to have a better handle on factors. Traction problems really have to do with your dial. would not matter the index. I am wondering how many stockers are out there that can not run a tenth under. It does not always cost money to pick a car up. But it helps. Trust me I have one of the smallest budgets there is. I hope the riff raft come race with us. All are welcome by me

You missed my point, but that might be my fault. I was not in any way saying that I agreed with the "riff-raff" logic. I completely disagree with it. But it is a reality that we have to contend with. Like you, I have a very limited budget and in the past have resorted to things like used and factory rebuilt parts (think rebuilt roller lifters). What I was trying to say is that a lot of "checkbook racers" think that because they can go 1.25 under (often with a car they know nothing about), they don't need to think about the poor guy who's spending every dime he can afford to run a tenth under the index. They qualify well, not because they work hard and understand the theory behind what they're doing, but because they can just buy whatever they need to do so. Again, I don't see how lowering the index does anything but hurt the guys who use brains and sweat to make their car fast enough to run the index.

[B Parker]

I agree with my brother Gary. The index's are a joke where they are at. Dropping the index's a tenth is not going to change a thing for the guys at the bottom of the list They will still be there but only now 3 or 4 under. As far as guys quitting because they lowered the index a few years ago. I have been doing this most of my life ( I'm 62 ) and don't know anyone that stopped because they lowered the index's. Lets face it the age of us class racers left and NHRA has been the real reason why most have quite. I said it on here a few years ago. It sucks I'm addicted but my drug dealer really doesn't want me around anymore. How many cars would be at nationals if they took the limit off and we still had the sponsors that have been chased off.

The real Stock Eliminator died years ago!!! Stock is just the name they still use for our class. As they say STOCK has left the building. Not something I wanted but it's the reality of it. For those of you that are key board racers with an opinion maybe you should get to a race and talk to the top half of the field. How many are 100 lbs plus over with extra oil and the timing turned 10 degrees out running an air filter to slow their cars down so not to go 1 second under. That's great until you get a heads up. As Gary said he may not hit some races because he already triggered it once. He has my Corvette that I bought and raced just a few years back. I bought the car from a nice guy who couldn't qualify at indy with it. He told me it was a tough combo and it had been factored to high. That same car now goes 10:70 in G/SA with ease. Not just because of money spent on it. It's because of what we have learned threw the years and testing. If you don't have a clue ask others for help. Most of us old time stockers can't wait to tell you things that will help you go faster without spending big money.

Some of my 1969 camaro friends that race a 350/255 hp rated at 280 combo are concerned their combo is going to end up getting hp. With Sorensen willing to step on his a little. Is that combo overrated ?

James I disagree with you about Indy. It's the only national event where now we really can see who is the big dog in the class. In 2014 with dog poop air as you would say you went .951 under. It's now 4 years later I would hope you have picked it up even a little bit more. That would put you at 1.20 plus under in good air. Maybe your combo needs HP. LOL Billy most of the high HP cars already had solid lifters. The only thing roller rockers did was help in parts breakage. You also go pretty fast with a ( As you would call it) dime rocket. Why??? I already know the answer but maybe you could tell the others the little things you do to make the car run that fast that won't set them back big dollars. I have just started to race stock again. I bought someone else's car had the motor freshened up plus changed some parts. This last Saturday went testing at our local track. By the end of the day picked it up .09. It cost me $ 100 for the day between gas tires and entrance fee. No big changes just little things that I thought would help. There was only one other stocker there testing. For those that are running only a few under get out and test. Ask others for help with cheap stuff you can do to pick your car up. I hope some of the other racers who are sick of having to play the game pipe up on here. Barry

[Frank Castros]

The cheapest way to go faster has always been to test and tune.

[Casey Miles]

Another way that NHRA could clear up the HP issue is to go to cubic inch to shipping weight, that way NHRA wouldn't have to police anything as far as indexes. Qualifying would be a totally different list.


Casey Miles

248H Stock

[goinbroke2]

Cu in to weight would be the end of most fords as the heads suck (Cleveland exception) and you'd see a sea of sbc's just like comp elim.

Very few would benefit and lots would suffer with that.

[B Parker]

Thank you know who you guys aren't still coming on here saying Stock is an entrance level class. Yah maybe 20 years ago. But that horse left the barn too with all the enhancements we have had in the last 20 yrs. There is nothing cheap about running a competitive Stocker today.

What's a set of rear tire cost?
How much is racing gas now?
What's it cost to get to these races?
Entrance fee?
The list could just keep on going. How are you getting the car there and where are you staying. Back when we started it was the entrance level class that paid money at the local track. But those days are long gone. Racing and entrance level really just doesn't belong together. Barry

How would that work? Like a modified eleminator set of rules? I don’t think that would work at all.

I think moving the indexes wouldn’t be the best thing right now. Maybe raise the instant hit to 1.25 or 1.30 under. Also the trigger to 1.10 under instead of 1.00.
Keep the index where it is now. Keep it a little easier for the guys that are starting out and the ones running the really tough combos.

Originally Posted by Casey Miles

Another way that NHRA could clear up the HP issue is to go to cubic inch to shipping weight, that way NHRA wouldn't have to police anything as far as indexes. Qualifying would be a totally different list.


Casey Miles

248H Stock

[Race Clean]

It's simple, just add a triple A Class at the top of the chain again and give everyone that should have more HP exactly just that,(with a full tech inspection of course) it seems to be to easy to protect combos with averages, loose that!
With one more Class you have room to move everyone thats need to be moved up one class and the Indexes are not lowered for any odd combo's.
It's had been said Stock is no way near what was intended and I agree to much goodies have been given, It's greed driven,everyone want's something for there combo without thinking about the long run,and NHRA just didn't stand it's grounds on this. (either)I am surprised there still is a Stock Class considering how close it is to SS.
My personal take on when the downfall started is actually when they allowed the combo's to move up one class, then the good combos took over most of the classes and many up to then decent car got somewhat obsolete(Bad for the Car count I think, not everyone want's a Camaro,believe it or not),I am pretty sure someone now gonna say, work on your stuff but we all know that ain't always the problem
And after the the hp committee "lost their job" this was over in my opinion!

I know this does nothing for the really slow guys,I think we can't do much for them until this turns to a real bracket racing.

[Alan Roehrich]

Question for my good friends the Parker brothers, and I'm just asking so people will understand what you're wanting. I'm not arguing or disagreeing, more hoping to inspire a productive discussion.



What is your goal for lowering the indexes? What are you hoping to accomplish?






As for some of the other suggestions, I've been advocating one pound weight breaks starting at 7.0 pounds per factored HP for several years now, with A/S and A/SA being 7.0 pounds. As well as adding class eliminations after the first round of qualifying at every event.


Smart racers are always going to protect their combination, they'd be idiots, and real slow before long, if they didn't.


It should be painfully obvious to anyone who is thinking, we do not want another HP committee, not with NHRA people, and not with racers either. There probably are much better ways to manage the class than the current AHFS as it is, but that's an entirely different discussion.

[Gary Parker]

Alan...
I know there are many that can go 1 second under. Most because of hard work. Just do not think it is right we get horsepower for all our hard work. Like I said the AHFS was for new cars rated way off and the under rated combos that have never been factored. If not lowering the indexes, raise the trigger. There are some combos that are hard to make run a second under. But over time most should be able to run pretty good if worked on. They take horsepower off cars that do not go fast. I wonder if some of those combos have not been thrashed on. Its easier to run slow and let NHRA take horsepower off. I know no answer is easy. But I was wondering how people with race cars felt. As we have been told for my 40 years of running stock. We are a performance based class. Thanks Alan