Make the Chevrolet Win

[Larry Hill]

From what I here NMCA is a better deal. Track prep is better, more runs due to all run field. Not sure how much entry fee is for NMCA.

Having two NHRA races back to back for the Show Down cars puts team parts inventory at a premium.

Just where does a racer go test to get one of these cars to go A to B?

[Geoff Turk]

Ok, I couldn’t resist any longer

As one of the Dodges running the ‘bogus’ engine combination but who also actively campaigned (and routinely qualified in the top 6-8 out of 15-20 participants) with the ‘factory’ engine combination, here’s my offer:

To David Barton and/or Stephen Bell, I will reinstall the ‘factory’ engine that truly used production car/truck (not ‘production’ as in we put it in a ‘factory’ race car we sold a few of but ‘production’ as in it comes from a production car / truck that were sold by the tens of thousands), remove my production hood (that I cut a few inches of sheet metal out of the underside) to accommodate my non ‘factory’ installed air inlet and I will return to running zero air inlet system, drawing air from the back of the radiator, oh yeah, for David, I’ll also take off my ‘remote’ water pump that is bolted to the block and move the engine back to the exact location it was in (man, those were such huge gains).

You guys find some production heads and block (as in came in a Chevy car or truck, but you can cnc the heads), remove your purpose built special hood (is it really carbon fiber ?) that only came on a ‘factory’ race car and the related air inlet system that goes with it (that was also not ever on a production car)

And then, we meet at a track somewhere and run ‘em, 2 out of 3.

If I lose, I will publicly appologize for all the Dodges now running at the front with stuff we installed, that’s kind of like yours, but we had to put in after we got the car from the ‘factory’ (a small facility that finishes building 50+ hand built cars /year, kind of like the ‘factories’ your cars came from) BUT if I win, you have to never, ever again say how our current engines are bogus and not ‘factory’, our hoods / radiator supports are cut and that we have ‘remote’ water pumps.

You guys in ? Oh, and I’ll even let you guys keep your non production car/truck heads and block, special hood and air intake if you just let me keep my ‘cut’ production hood and air intake (I’ll run the special ‘bogus or not ?’ match race I am proposing with my ‘truck’ engine). We can all run at 3,550, right ? (And I won’t ask you to tape cardboard boxes to your cars to get to the same cross sectional area or drag coefficient).

Let’s schedule it and get this over with so we can go back out, work on our cars and race in the NHRA / NMCA, the people who continue to give us an awesome opportunity to be a part of one of the coolest classes that’s come along in drag racing in a while.

BTW, do I look fat in the Challenger ? I think I look good with the extra 25lbs, right buddies ? (don’t answer this). See you out there

[theman440]

Originally Posted by Geoff Turk

Ok, I couldn’t resist any longer

As one of the Dodges running the ‘bogus’ engine combination but who also actively campaigned (and routinely qualified in the top 6-8 out of 15-20 participants) with the ‘factory’ engine combination, here’s my offer:

To David Barton and/or Stephen Bell, I will reinstall the ‘factory’ engine that truly used production car/truck (not ‘production’ as in we put it in a ‘factory’ race car we sold a few of but ‘production’ as in it comes from a production car / truck that were sold by the tens of thousands), remove my production hood (that I cut a few inches of sheet metal out of the underside) to accommodate my non ‘factory’ installed air inlet and I will return to running zero air inlet system, drawing air from the back of the radiator, oh yeah, for David, I’ll also take off my ‘remote’ water pump that is bolted to the block and move the engine back to the exact location it was in (man, those were such huge gains).

You guys find some production heads and block (as in came in a Chevy car or truck, but you can cnc the heads), remove your purpose built special hood (is it really carbon fiber ?) that only came on a ‘factory’ race car and the related air inlet system that goes with it (that was also not ever on a production car)

And then, we meet at a track somewhere and run ‘em, 2 out of 3.

If I lose, I will publicly appologize for all the Dodges now running at the front with stuff we installed, that’s kind of like yours, but we had to put in after we got the car from the ‘factory’ (a small facility that finishes building 50+ hand built cars /year, kinds of like the ‘factories’ your cars came from) BUT if I win, you have to never, ever again say how our current engines are bogus and not ‘factory’, are hoods / radiator supports are cut and that we have ‘remote’ water pumps.

You guys in ? Oh, and I’ll even let you guys keep your non production car/truck heads and block, special hood and air intake if you just let me keep my ‘cut’ production hood and air intake (I’ll run the special ‘bogus or not ?’ race with my ‘truck’ engine). We can all run at 3,550, right ? (And I won’t ask you to tape cardboard boxes to your cars to get to the same cross sectional area or drag coefficient).

Let’s schedule it and get this over with so we can go back out, work on our cars and race in the NHRA / NMCA, the people who continue to give us an awesome opportunity to be a part of one of the coolest classes that’s come along in drag racing in a while.

BTW, do I look fat in the Challenger ? I think I look good with the extra 25lbs, right buddies ? (don’t answer this). See you out there

Waiting with baited breath . . .

[Spyphish]

Geoff, I want some of that 2/3 stuff (not with you). David, bring a 68 Dart as well. Fun time. I was always taught what goes around comes around. Great job Kevin and always great to hear from Uncle Jeff. Stephen

[Bruce Noland]

Unlike Stock and Super Stock you guys actually hold all the cards because the OEM's are still engaged at the Showdown level and nhra likes their money. You guys should form your own Showdown Association and then each group of OEM racers can select a member from their group to form a 3 man advisory panel. Then this panel can hammer out all of these problems. Each group would vote on a resolution provided by the panel and if it is approved, hand it to nhra and the OEM's and tell them this is what you want. You guys are spending all the money and doing all the work - the OEM's and nhra get much more out of it than you do. It could also be considered as a peace treaty.

[BRETV]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Unlike Stock and Super Stock you guys actually hold all the cards because the OEM's are still engaged at the Showdown level and nhra likes their money. You guys should form your own Showdown Association and then each group of OEM racers can select a member from their group to form a 3 man advisory panel. Then this panel can hammer out all of these problems. Each group would vote on a resolution provided by the panel and if it is approved, hand it to nhra and the OEM's and tell them this is what you want. You guys are spending all the money and doing all the work - the OEM's and nhra get much more out of it than you do. It could also be considered as a peace treaty.

Great idea!!!






Bret Velde
2003 SS??

[Coleydog]

^^^^ Racers from different brands agree on something?!
Might add, only the loser's and the ones that can't keep up want rules changes.
I can see it now "I'm a tenth ahead of the rest, put 50lbs on me"

[Jim Wahl]

Originally Posted by Bruce Noland

Unlike Stock and Super Stock you guys actually hold all the cards because the OEM's are still engaged at the Showdown level and nhra likes their money. You guys should form your own Showdown Association and then each group of OEM racers can select a member from their group to form a 3 man advisory panel. Then this panel can hammer out all of these problems. Each group would vote on a resolution provided by the panel and if it is approved, hand it to nhra and the OEM's and tell them this is what you want. You guys are spending all the money and doing all the work - the OEM's and nhra get much more out of it than you do. It could also be considered as a peace treaty.

Don't normally agree with Bruce, however, this makes perfect sense! If you Showdown guys don't do this, your group will go the way of Pro Stock Truck. Jim

.

[Frank Castros]

Who cares as long as the 9" tire rule exists, it's the equalizer.

[Rob Wright]

If leveling horsepower would please everyone that's not horribly difficult. A fixed diameter orifice with flow certification (issued by NHRA) installed before the fuel pressure regulator, plus a max spec for fuel pressure, would accomplish that. Not hard.

Each vehicle platform has its own advantages & disadvantages and those would be more difficult to quantify & sort out effective countermeasures to equalize all of them. Regardless, it all needs to be considered since there is more going down the track than "The Motor".

The real lack of parody seems to be each manufacturer's rep's ability to get submissions in (cars and parts) and approved.

One gains submission approvals for new engines, etc. that retro back several production years, favorable HP ratings vs submitted engine specs, blocks with big lifters & purpose made heads, etc.

Another had a similar thing going on until their rep made a career change & left, but they had a pretty good go at gaining submission approval with emails and no sample part reviews.

The third rep seems to be unwilling to make submissions that retro back, or somehow if they are trying their submissions are refused. Also, they seem to be less willing to invest in bespoke parts and instead are using items from their "general use" catalog. This actually makes sense if you're running a business to make money, instead of making heavy investment to create bespoke parts that are not produced in any appreciable volume and therefore are not generally available & cannot be sold at a profit.

When I was involved with this on the OEM side, I suggested that all submissions should be reviewed by NHRA and engineering people from each OEM before they are approved. I also suggested that denial or disapproval from a competitor's OEM must include sound reasoning (technical facts) to support their argument. This way it would be less likely to become an emotionally fueled pitch battle.......Just facts & data.

I also suggested that all new car submissions should be demonstrated on-track with engineering reps from each OEM and NHRA present, at a location of NHRA's choice, before the new car is approved. This would include a review of ECU and vehicle data logger information by all present to avoid having submissions pass through with sandbagging measures like throttle cables set to only open the blades 50% or spark retarded 15°.

I still tend to think this is a good idea, and nobody was ever able to present a sound argument against it.

Back to the retro submissions & parts on the fly for a minute, if a decision was made by NHRA that says there will be no new engines, extensive vehicle modifications, air intakes, etc. accepted for older model year cars that were already submitted and accepted, what should be done with the cars/combinations that are already out there today?