If an advocate could be found - what would you say?

[Angelo DiTocco]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

Please provide the verifiable data that proves your assumption true.



Please provide the verifiable data that proves your assumption true

or maybe it's that in this millennium with social media, manufactures have realized they can reach far more racers and hobbyists than the NHRA contingency program could ever do and they don't have to pay the NHRA or racers. You think Mark Williams bowing out years ago effected their bottomline? I'm sure it did, for the BETTER. They nor any other former contingency sponsor has closed their doors.



is it really? From my eyes, it's a dial in bracket race 99% of the pairs.



the only ones that care about teardown are those wanting to set records that no one cares about any more. Who gets excited in the year 2019 about some obsure combo running 15 seconds or god forbid slower No one! 1970 is long gone and never coming back. The LS6 Chevelle's 13.2 second performance, tuned by GM and driven by a professional back in the day, impresses no one today least of which young men 17-30, not when you can buy a brand new, street legal, off the showroom floor 9 second car and if that's too rich for your blood, 10 to 12 second showroom stock cars are plentiful. Cars that do everything better than those big old muscle cars ever did.

Again, the world changed, our country changed so why is it shocking to some that drag racing has changed. Drag racing nor our country is going back to what it was 10 years ago no mind 50 years ago and that should be obvious to all by now. Stop complaining about the money, who has it, who gets it, who spends it and focus on the fact that we are all fortunate to be able to do this. Motorsports is on life support. Enjoy what time it and you have left and stop complaining.

1320 / Ed
I'll take a shot at answering some of your questions..... (based on my experience, although I believe if someone wanted to take the time to do it, finding verifiable data wouldn't be that difficult)
The cost of racing....
National Event Entries are about double what they were in the 90's when I started racing. And they definitely included one crew/restricted area pass.
The Nationals were a blast to race at back then. There were two days of qualifying and time trials..... (some races would have class eliminations) and the race eliminations started on Saturday morning. Compare that to now..... Entry twice as much, only one day of time trials/class etc with race eliminations starting no later than Friday morning. So in my view a good part of the fun factor is gone. The quotas are a drag, a real point of contention in my opinion. Back in the day there were often 90+ Sockers and 80+ Super Stockers at most Nationals in the heavily populated divisions. I can't say for sure but I strongly believe there were a lot more Super Class .90 cars as well, way more than the current quota system allows. Anyway - Somehow, even with the 2 days of qualifying and elims they still got these races done. They just don't seem like a good value in the current state.... I believe the others see this similarly but I can't speak for anyone in particular. I get it, and I accept that things have changed. So I attend these races when I feel like doing so and I don't when I don't.
Divisionals on the other hand, haven't really changed as much. The entries have gone up only moderately ($120 in the '90's / $170-$180 nowadays) which is understandable. The purses haven't changed much either, they may be modestly higher. I still see the divisional races as a good overall value (if that makes sense). No quotas or pre-entry factor a plus too.

Stock & Super Stock are traditionally performances based classes. They are mainly a dial in race as you state but..... Stock Eliminator, due mainly to the fact that it has remained organized in a traditional way (i.e. fewer classes), has a lot of heads up runs. It's there, you just may not have noticed. Super Stock (which has a lot more classes because of GT, FGT etc.), has a much lower frequency of heads up runs.

The advent of the AHFS put a damper of sorts on chasing performance. Class elims in the old days were like mini wars and there were a lot of rivalries which made it fun. Because (except for Indy) that's all crammed into one day - it's just not the same.

I'd love to see the old days come back because it was a lot of fun, but realistically that's not going to happen. I don't complain about that stuff myself, and I try to make the best of it because that's all I have time to do. We all have to adjust in our own way. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for people on here like Bruce and Billy, who not only are traditionalists but also have the will to advocate for the rest of us. You make an excellent point about enjoying what we have, I agree with you wholeheartedly. And when these guys race, I have observed them to do exactly that. But In order to at least preserve what's there there needs to be folks willing to assert themselves.... and we are lucky to have them.

I hope that helps put things in perspective. I didn't intend to be so long winded. We truly are all in this together.
Best of luck to you this season
Ang

[1320racer]

Angelo, thanks for taking a shot, offering some history and your perspective.

You are correct, we truly are all in this together and that's why I'm here commenting.

Thank you and good luck to you as well this season.

[Jim Caughlin]

Before anyone holds out hope that NHRA has hired someone who will devote time to talking to/ listening to sportsman racers and will have some clout to do something with that info, two simple words to consider: Len Imbrogno

[Kevin Panzino]

Originally Posted by Angelo DiTocco

1320 / Ed
I'll take a shot at answering some of your questions..... (based on my experience, although I believe if someone wanted to take the time to do it, finding verifiable data wouldn't be that difficult) ..........

I hope that helps put things in perspective. I didn't intend to be so long winded. We truly are all in this together.
Best of luck to you this season
Ang

A most outstanding, well-spoken, professional and classy response, (especially for a NewYorker: Disclosure, that's an entirely friendly jab there from a guy who grew up just outside Newark/Jersey City, NJ, so I think I can get away with that...) I remember watching you race in the 90's,but have never met you in person. I hope to be able to do so some day, and have a few glasses of wine together. Thank you for bringing this death spiral of a post back to level flight.

[Bruce Noland]

The best-laid plans of mice and men can be ........ disrupted by a person so confident in his ignorance that he makes something so simple seem convoluted and ugly.

My intent for this thread was to ask for responsible feedback from the racers but clearly that cannot happen when one person is intent on blowing it up.

I have not raced for two years because I got into something wet in VA. and crashed my car. The year before that my racing was cut short because of work and health issues. I should have my new car out by the end of this year. But have never surrendered my membership or competition number. I think most people who visit this site might remember some of this story. Obviously one guy was pulling lint out of his navel at that time and missed it.

I personally think the biggest problem that the Sportsman racer is confronted with is the obvious effort by nhra to remove us from racing at National events. 20 years ago we could compete at the Gators with 600 cars on the grounds. And somehow the race was a success, barring bad weather. Now because the Pros need so much room and the TV schedule limitations they have scaled the race back by over 200 cars. Yet, nhra still has time for a cackle-fest and other forms of entertainment when we should be on the track racing.

It's easy to write a suck-up post to Lucas Oil and tell them what a fine job they are doing for us because it is obvious and true. Lucas Oil has saved our behinds out of the kindness of the Lucas family. They are the best. But we also have to be honest with them and say that nhra is taking their money while kicking the Sportsman racers off the grounds through the use of these draconian quotas. Lucas deserves better. It's investment is diminished when Sportsman racers figure out that it will take 7 or 8 grade points to get in a national event and there is no way they can attend that many divisional races in a year. And for many Sportsman Racers, getting grade points to attend national events is a prime motivating factor for attending Division races.

There is more but my old phone is about done. So I'll continue at a later date.

[1320racer]

I'll repeat again, this is a lot about nothing but the ramblings of a few old men, living in the past that think stock eliminator is special and want these events to revolve around them that also think if the rules are reversed to a time gone by decades ago that they and their old cars will find the winner's circle like they may have long ago. You collectively have been crying about most every rule change in this class for decades, more recently...aftermarket brakes, aftermarket seats, aftermarket heads, wheelie bars, 2 steps, class designation, HP factors and the list goes on and on and I didn't even talk about those cheating with ported heads and manifolds that I have seen done in person with my own 2 eyes! You don't work harder nor are you more deserving than any other class racer!

NHRA Sportsman Racing isn't perfect but nothing is. I also do not see the "obvious effort by nhra to remove us from racing at National events " What I do see when I look around the pits at every event is men and women that are excited to compete, hope to win and want to be there. Again...


THANK YOU

Originally Posted by 1320racer

NHRA, Lucas Oil, Contingency sponsors, Division Directors, their staff... all the men and women that work these events, track owners, managers and their staffs, EMS personal, the fuel and tire companies that support these events and the communities that welcome us when in town supporting these events. Ignore the vocal minority, that complain for the sake of complaining, that think they are special, that want these events and rules changed to favor them, that think these events should revolve around them and their class, some who haven't supported these events in many years.

We the silent majority appreciate your efforts and want you to know they don't go unnoticed.


Signed

The NHRA Sportsman Racer

and to the few old men here living in the past, not one of you btw, "Liked" the above, stop complaining and enjoy what it is or quit!

BTW, if you think I'm alone in my opinion you are mistaken again. I have a lot of friends in NHRA Sportsman Racing running in most every class including stock eliminator and everyone that I have spoken to agree with my comments.

Ken, thank you for this forum where all can voice our opinion on every topic regardless of who disagrees.

[Lee Valentine]

Ed,I believe you know who I am and I think you pretty much have hit the nail on the head. I have been doing this 55 years and it has always been crying about factors and rules,costs quotas etc. I love running stock and Super Stock but I accept the rules I'm given and do the best I can. Do I always agree,No would I like to see changes YES but others may not see it my way. We just have to make it the best we can without trashing each other. See you at the races.

[1320racer]

Lee, I'm not sure I do but I appreciate your honest reply. Good to hear you are still loving racing and make the best of it. See you soon and good luck this season.

With that said, I'm out of here for a while, no Ken hasn't banned me yet. I've got two cars to get race ready in 8 weeks for testing. Got a very busy May and June, starting with my son graduating college on May 5th.

[Dennis P Chapman]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

Lee, I'm not sure I do but I appreciate your honest reply. Good to hear you are still loving racing and make the best of it. See you soon and good luck this season.

With that said, I'm out of here for a while, no Ken hasn't banned me yet. I've got two cars to get race ready in 8 weeks for testing. Got a very busy May and June, starting with my son graduating college on May 5th.

Ed congrats on your son graduating college thats a big deal in his life.

[farmco r/sa]

Originally Posted by 1320racer

I'll repeat again, this is a lot about nothing but the ramblings of a few old men, living in the past that think stock eliminator is special and want these events to revolve around them that also think if the rules are reversed to a time gone by decades ago that they and their old cars will find the winner's circle like they may have long ago. You collectively have been crying about most every rule change in this class for decades, more recently...aftermarket brakes, aftermarket seats, aftermarket heads, wheelie bars, 2 steps, class designation, HP factors and the list goes on and on and I didn't even talk about those cheating with ported heads and manifolds that I have seen done in person with my own 2 eyes! You don't work harder nor are you more deserving than any other class racer!

NHRA Sportsman Racing isn't perfect but nothing is. I also do not see the "obvious effort by nhra to remove us from racing at National events " What I do see when I look around the pits at every event is men and women that are excited to compete, hope to win and want to be there. Again...


THANK YOU




and to the few old men here living in the past, not one of you btw, "Liked" the above, stop complaining and enjoy what it is or quit!

BTW, if you think I'm alone in my opinion you are mistaken again. I have a lot of friends in NHRA Sportsman Racing running in most every class including stock eliminator and everyone that I have spoken to agree with my comments.

Ken, thank you for this forum where all can voice our opinion on every topic regardless of who disagrees.

Golly Mr.. What is with the references to these wise mens age

group. ? They have forgotten more about how to extract every
.001 and .0001 of ET out of a car than most of us will ever know.
Mentioning there age group seems very disrespectful..
I have the utmost respect for them. Congrats on your

super comp championship. You seem very humble.