When Leaders Lead

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by rognelson777

Actually from some of the info i have read about this is indycar only has 10 or 12 full time teams with budgets of 6 million dollars. My belief is top nhra teams fuel teams spend that much and there are more full time teams. I also believe nhra has better tv ratings and better attendance.

I think penske has a tall order in todays society to try increase drastically.

I hope he can improve the sport because it helps all of motorsports

There were 18 Indycar drivers who ran every race this season, and three more cars that ran every race but split between two drivers. That's right in the neighborhood of full-time nitro teams.

From what I can find, both Indycar and NHRA are getting roughly 500,000 viewers when on cable channels.

In my mind, the biggest problem with the NHRA pro series is that there is no room for innovation. Everyone is driving the same car. I don't watch it because I have no interest in the outcome. I can't think of another form of motorsports where for the most part the amateurs are not aspiring to be professionals. What we do and what they do are barely related.

F1 racing is incredibly boring as a sporting event, but I watch every race because there is a big soap opera going on between the drivers and teams, and the races are part of the story.

I don't watch much Indycar, but I've been to the Indianapolis 500 twice and am dying to go again. From a professional racing perspective, I don't think NHRA has anything to offer than can hold a candle to it.

[340Cuda]

Originally Posted by Lenny5160

In my mind, the biggest problem with the NHRA pro series is that there is no room for innovation. .

I understand what you are saying and I agree. But there is the issue of cost containment and than with much innovation the fuel cars would quickly overwhelm the tires and the tracks. I don't know the solution.

[Mike Jones]

In my mind, the biggest problem with the NHRA pro series is that there is no room for innovation. Everyone is driving the same car. I don't watch it because I have no interest in the outcome. I can't think of another form of motorsports where for the most part the amateurs are not aspiring to be professional
.
Tony, I see the same situation with Indy cars. It will be interesting for me, if RP can reach young fans. Few are as fascinated with cars as we were.
MJ

[Dan Bennett]

Just as a follow up, I wanted to make some things a bit clearer about my original post. I was impressed that he gave equal importance to increasing funding for the series AND the teams. That thinking does not seem to happen with the NHRA.

The other part I liked was about working to keep the cars relatable for the fans. Pro Stock was where I concentrated and so that point really hits home for me.
Top Fuel gets a pass on this, since they are the "unlimited" class even though that hasn't been true for many years.

I watched the first funny car races and they were a sensation for being outrageous overkill of cars anyone could buy and would be seen daily on any street in the country. Now, they're some sort of doorstop looking blob - and it got bad enough that a Mustang changed into a Camaro just by decals and nobody seemed to care.

As for Pro Stock, I could go on for pages and pages but everyone here knows that they bear no relationship to anything that has rolled off a production line or sat in a dealer showroom.

This whole thing doesn't need to be a "living in the past" vs "change with the times" argument. I am still excited to see a great run from a 60s or 70s car. But that comes from having raced them before I ever saw very many on a drag strip.I would also be excited to see the best tech minds give their all to increase the already impressive performance of modern production cars. But even though we've had that chance for the last few years, it went out of control very early. Leadership was not there.

Let me see real invention, and not just a series of ghost packages that appear out of thin air, were not a part of production, and depend on having enough sway with NHRA to get them approved. So, Leadership. Not in maximizing profit, bonuses, or golden parachutes. Leadership in actually advancing the sport. Keeping the past and allowing for the future.

No, it's not easy. But what Penske has planned isn't either. The difference is that he cares enough to try and make it happen. That's why I posted.

[jwsamuel]

Originally Posted by Dan Bennett

I watched the first funny car races and they were a sensation for being outrageous overkill of cars anyone could buy and would be seen daily on any street in the country. Now, they're some sort of doorstop looking blob - and it got bad enough that a Mustang changed into a Camaro just by decals and nobody seemed to care.

Totally agree about Funny Car. I have been saying for a few years now that Funny Car bodies should have no more than 10 percent variation from a stock, production body in all aspects.

[pmrphil]

Originally Posted by jwsamuel

Totally agree about Funny Car. I have been saying for a few years now that Funny Car bodies should have no more than 10 percent variation from a stock, production body in all aspects.

They should start that with Pro Stock.

[Mark Yacavone]

Originally Posted by pmrphil

They should start that with Pro Stock.

They should have known that 20 years ago. Where were the leaders then??

[Dan Bennett]

Originally Posted by Mark Yacavone

They should have known that 20 years ago. Where were the leaders then??

I was watching very closely back then, and it was apparent that this wasn't even on their list of things to keep an eye on. This was when the "tech is a PITA and too expensive" thing started. The NHRA had been embarrassed by the Glidden boys and instead of correcting the problem they more or less threw their hands up and walked away.

Back then, Don Ness in particular was doing some amazingly creative things to improve aero and handling on his cars, and he was clever enough to do it so the cars would still pass the template test. Jerry Bickel may have been doing the same, but I never worked closely with any of his cars at the time so I can't say for sure.

I'm not sure that a lot of people know that chassis builders were involved in getting the spec bodies designed, built, and sold. It was easier for them to build a car with an already tweaked body and they were making a profit on every body they installed.

Some of them had invested in the development and so were even getting money from the bodies another builder installed. It was not the customary profit from getting a dealer discount and then charging retail. Since they were involved in the manufacturing they could charge whatever they thought they could get.

They had enough pull to convince NHRA that this was a perfect way to not have to worry about a close inspection of bodies since everybody would have the same ones for any given model. So no precision templates needed to be built for every new model, and no tech inspectors were needed. Real cost savings so more money for bonuses! And no more embarrassment when you've been outsmarted. I doubt it took very long for Glendora to jump onboard with the plan.

I was told by a supremely reliable source that before the move to spec bodies, NHRA had been approached to do laser measurement much like NASCAR developed. They refused to consider the proposal. They'd been planning on saving money, not spending it so the cost of keeping tech workers on this job along with the cost of the system was out of the question.

The manufacturers got involved and allowed wind tunnel time. It was an easy way to fix a great looking but very bad aero model into the best of the best.
Fast forward and we have certification sticker on blobs.

[jwsamuel]

Originally Posted by pmrphil

They should start that with Pro Stock.

I would have Pro Stock run stock body profiles. No change at all.

[Lenny5160]

Originally Posted by Mike Jones

Tony, I see the same situation with Indy cars. It will be interesting for me, if RP can reach young fans. Few are as fascinated with cars as we were.
MJ

You're not wrong.

The biggest issue with F1 is that the performance of the cars is so far apart. I guess I like the cars being the same on an oval or road course when the driving can really shine.

It's not to say that there aren't driving skills used in professional drag racing, but it usually isn't impressive to watch from the stands or on TV. I do enjoy watching nitro in person, but it's a sensory experience for the noise, smells, and feelings.