"Old School" Stocker Cams

[astikhossw]

One is a stocker and they both have the same lift and duration.

[Mike Jones]

Originally Posted by astikhossw

One is a stocker and they both have the same lift and duration.

Same duration?

[impstocker]

Originally Posted by astikhossw

One is a stocker and they both have the same lift and duration.

OK..I think I get it now..the lift is the same..the duration being the same amount of degree's the valve is open as the stock cam..but with the square lobe the "dwell" time of the valve stays open is the big difference. ? right?

Is this a actual old stocker cam you show..another words those old cams had square lobes too?

The cam in my 396/325 is square lobe..but has more duration built into it, right?

Did they also change the LSA, lobe separation angle of the race cam compared to the stock cam too? More overlap for higher RPM?

Thanks for the lesson! I think it makes more sense to me.

Will Lamprecht
65 Imp...

[gmonde]

Originally Posted by impstocker

I started this thread just to learn what made a Stock "cheater cam" different than a factory cam using the same lift and duration..

I see it evolved into a discussion about roller cams in stock.

I am running the same 396/325 HP engine I ran in my 68 Impala back in 2003-2006, at that time the index was 12.50 in I/S which I ran. I would go 11.70-11.80's , 6 to 7 tenths under. I used stamp steel rocker arms which was the rule then. "Everybody" told me BBC always broke rocker arms..in over 100 passes with that motor never broke a rocker arm. I used Crane rocker arms, nothing special, not even "long slot" since I only have .398 lift.

"Everybody" also told me the car would be a parts breaker running a stick in a heavy car...(4095 lbs in I/S) I broke one set of gears, that was only because I used a set of street gears 4:88 at first, swapped to Pro gears, never had a problem after that.

Since then the index has been changed to a quicker 12.20..3 tenths quicker. Running the same motor in my 65 Impala now, do I think roller rockers, or lets say a roller cam, will make up that 3 tenths difference? I don't think so.. I decided to go back to running a stick too..same set up I had back in 2003-2006 I know I still left some ET on the table with my clutch settings and 60ft times.

So most probable you will see low valve covers with stamped steel rocker arms under them. I do have a set of "chinese" roller rockers I can use, but rather spend my $ right now getting rest of stick stuff I need..bellhousing, shifter, Z-bar, pedals ect. instead of a good set of roller rockers..plus need to get longer rocker studs for those. Plus I still will be using Shubeck "hydraulic" lifters..even though I guess I can use true solid lifters now. oh, I also need to buy a trailer too, just "refurbished" my 1977 Chev C30 to tow with, which I used back in 2003-2006

So I guess my point is you can allow me to use upgraded stuff like roller cams, but for now I will be showing up with a "old school" motor that instead of running 7 tenths under I should go 3 to 4 tenths under..another reason to run a stick. Less heads up then.

I am just going to be happy racing again!

Will Lamprecht
G/H/I Stock 65 Impala 396/325

Now that's what I call working on your stuff,,,,

[doug schriener]

Impstocker-you have a PM

Listen, it’s a bad idea. When guys are breaking flat tappets and other valvetrain parts it’s time to get help from someone who knows what they are doing, because they don’t . Or they need to ramp up their maintenance program. Changing the rules for racers that can’t build reliable engine is stupid. I’ve made about 200 runs with the Coronet. It has a flat tappet cam as per the rules, and we have never broken a valvetrain part during my time as the driver. It’s a Hemi in that with not the best valvetrain geometry. So there is a great example of when something is assembled with the right parts how good the reliability can be.

Not really worried about an internet discussion how I’m perceived about this. I think it’s a bad idea and I spoke up about it.

So you think just allowing roller lifters is going to make this a cheap sport and make everybody reliable? You don’t think anybody’s going to exploit that and make the engines run harder than they do right now with these new parts? Then we all have to buy a roller lifters and roller cam to keep up. Then we all have to buy roller lifters and roller cams to keep up. How many good Stock eliminator racers are looking for a roller lifters for their engine? More or less than 10? Wie will have 10,000 RPM 396s, then how much money are we going to spend to keep up with them? BTW, you can get quite a bit of performance out of lower valve spring pressures if the right parts are used.

Originally Posted by Frank Castros

Thanks Hoven for your nice compliment. "This guy" thought you had more class than that, I guess I'm wrong on both counts.


Would it not be less expensive to run roller cams than a billet mechanical cam and unreliable lifters?

The Stock Eliminator rule book changed forever with the liberalizing of cam duration and valve springs.

You guys are already spending big money.

It's just food for thought.

[Frank Castros]

[QUOTE=Todd Hoven;605087]
We will have 10,000 RPM 396s, then how much money are we going to spend to keep up with them?[QUOTE]

Don't get me started on the most under factored combination in Stock Eliminator.

[Lyn Smith]

Hey lets get back to the Old School stock cams original thread. Just went to over to the vintage cams shelf in my garage and I've got a General Kinetics sbc cam clc -431 f stamped on the end. What era is that from?

[jimi]

I’m not opposed to roller cams in stock and some cars already have them, NHRA has given everything else like a super stocker in stock and in my opinion there is no hp advantage or durability advantage. I also have never had a single valve train problem with my Hemi. It’s not the roller lifter that allows the working rpm range it’s the cam profile.
New billet steel cam $1000 , proper flat tappet lifter for said cam $850 , new set of push rods $400 , about the same price as the roller. If I’m going to upgrade from a cast cam I’d prefer the roller( not that we can have it). I’d also like to eventually run my cam/car through the traps at 85-8600 not so sure we will ever get there with the flat tappet stuff.

20+ years ago I wrote a letter to Nhra asking for roller cams , roller rockers , better springs, aftermarket rods , aftermarket brakes etc... with my opinion why we should do it. I never got an answer but eventually everything except the roller cams has come to pass. I get it Billy And Todd both like the little of what’s left , the purity of stock racing but it has moved so far away who really gives a **** anymore? $3500 stainless headers $6500 transmissions, $5000 torque converters ? Some stocker engines are approaching $30000. not much STOCK anymore for a long time now! This argument has been going on since 1987 when the cam rules changed and it has not gone backward since.

[Cbrinson47]

Originally Posted by Todd Hoven

Listen, it’s a bad idea. When guys are breaking flat tappets and other valvetrain parts it’s time to get help from someone who knows what they are doing, because they don’t . Or they need to ramp up their maintenance program. Changing the rules for racers that can’t build reliable engine is stupid. I’ve made about 200 runs with the Coronet. It has a flat tappet cam as per the rules, and we have never broken a valvetrain part during my time as the driver. It’s a Hemi in that with not the best valvetrain geometry. So there is a great example of when something is assembled with the right parts how good the reliability can be.

Not really worried about an internet discussion how I’m perceived about this. I think it’s a bad idea and I spoke up about it.

So you think just allowing roller lifters is going to make this a cheap sport and make everybody reliable? You don’t think anybody’s going to exploit that and make the engines run harder than they do right now with these new parts? Then we all have to buy a roller lifters and roller cam to keep up. Then we all have to buy roller lifters and roller cams to keep up. How many good Stock eliminator racers are looking for a roller lifters for their engine? More or less than 10? Wie will have 10,000 RPM 396s, then how much money are we going to spend to keep up with them? BTW, you can get quite a bit of performance out of lower valve spring pressures if the right parts are used.

NHRA screwed up stock when they allowed any spring pressures.